emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
That's it take what tiny bit of silver lining I could see and tear it up before my eyes.Except of course it might serve to massively increase their support in Ukraine
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
elbows
Well-Known Member
I'll use this article to make my current point again....
Much of the article is hinged upon what we are invited to think Putins aims are, which are then used to demonstrate how he has failed and how crazy and illogical his actions have been. And yet a full description of all his aims are not actually laid out properly in the article. A few are referred to implicitly or explicitly, but there are some gaping holes which that piece then exploits.
When I mentioned cold calculations in my previous post, I'm very much including sphere of influence grand chessboard shit, and the considerations of realpolitik. That shit is real, and it would take a new revolution of power in how humans organise across the globe and think about all manner of things in order to see the back of it. And yet so many articles and indeed our own posts have a very awkward relationship with that shit. Sometimes it is acknowledged, but sometimes it is the invisible man, or is conveniently hidden in the stained underpants of general haplessness. Or dressed smartly but bogusly in the clothes of noble aims and moral righteousness. It is conveniently mistaken for a madman, a miscalculation, propaganda is taken literally in order to provide cover and distraction.
Last edited:
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
Putin's control of the media is not very far off from China or North Korea. It's difficult to blame the people when they're so comprehensively brainwashed.
Add to that the ingrained, traditional Russian paranoia of the Outside World being Out To Get Them and you get that.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I think when people first started to say that things where not going as planned for Russia it was right to call into question how we could be certain of that. But I think it is becoming increasingly obvious that things are not going as they expected.
I doubt it was in their initial plans to have to call up thousands of Syrians or to have to move troops from Georgia let alone having to go cap in hand to China asking for rations to feed their troops. Just how far off plan is more difficult to say, and that doesn't mean things cannot be turned around for them. By all accounts they are operating a lot more effectively now than at the start.
At some point Russia will probably have a significant victory and how the 2 sides react to that could maybe matter a great deal.
I doubt it was in their initial plans to have to call up thousands of Syrians or to have to move troops from Georgia let alone having to go cap in hand to China asking for rations to feed their troops. Just how far off plan is more difficult to say, and that doesn't mean things cannot be turned around for them. By all accounts they are operating a lot more effectively now than at the start.
At some point Russia will probably have a significant victory and how the 2 sides react to that could maybe matter a great deal.
Cid
Proper break this time
There's a fair bit of reporting saying public employees, students etc were 'encouraged' to attend. e.g:
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
Sorry, I know you went to pains to specifically point that out. But my comment made more sense with the video than it did to the parent post on Putin not being the only problem.
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
I disagree. The past few weeks have been as bad as China or North Korea. It was only approaching that level before now. There've been quite a number of anti-Putin types who've just up and vanished in the past few years - we only see and hear about the important ones.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
A fair point. I did add that comment as an edit as I checked out the Twitter account I posted and it appears to be a fairly nationalist east european news source (hence their insistence on blaming the Russian people). My post was aimed at Putin for organising a pro-war rallySorry, I know you went to pains to specifically point that out. But my comment made more sense with the video than it did to the parent post on Putin not being the only problem.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Cid
Proper break this time
I think you can overplay 'brainwashing'. People compartmentalise... There are true believers of course, but for the majority I think it's just 'get on with life'. If shit hits the fan in China, social media will fire up with speculation/division same as anywhere else. Just with somewhat more caution about how things are expressed. Of course the media environment does make a significant difference, particularly for those who don't have some workaround or other (VPN, friends etc), but it's not like people salute a picture of Xi before they go to bed every night.
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
No, but the overall effect - taken over the population as a whole - is a tendency to very strong nationalism and closing ranks against the Outsider. I'm sure a very healthy part of Russia or China have sceptical thoughts about their government. But, and big but, they still trust their own more than anyone else's. In a crisis they will come together, not splinter.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I see some colonel from the Guards Parachute Assault Regiment has been 'liquidated', along with his right hand man, a major and the Russians admit to a sergeant and corporal dead in the same incident. They seem to be losing a lot of high ranking officers and these kind of people don't die alone, tends to be a fair few squaddies will be killed for each officer. As the number of coffins returning to the motherland becomes a flood Putin's lies will become harder and harder for the ordinary folk to believe...
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Gary Cheeseman.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
You might have already seen this, but Rob Lee is maintaining a twitter thread of all the Russian soldiers confirmed dead. Obviously there are far more then confirmed dead in the thread, but these are the ones to have been confirmed in Russia via news reports and/or public funerals, so tending to be the higher ranking soldiers.
This is a particularly noteworthy/deserved one, which might be the one you were referring to:
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
Good read that. Cheers for posting.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Sorry. Should have kept my mouth shut. Unfortunately it had already occurred to me that the Ukrainian state would have less use for the Azov battalion if the fighting in Donbas was over, but that that might have some unforeseen consequences of its own.
Realistically whatever happens the fascist presence in Ukraine and the even greater fascist presence in Russia is something to be really fucking worried about.
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
Not sure about this majority.
One thing that really stands out in here is the use of likes, people joust with them and some use them in a rather revealing way
I.E., just the other day I noticed someone not in favour here post a reasonable thought...nobody gave him a like...his post was immediately followed by a post from one of cool guys that simply agreed with the previous post..that one got likes, (from the other cool guys of course)
Its playground politics
Leighsw2
strictly off the record
Yes, I've noticed a lot of that on this thread.
Tbh, analysing likes feels kind of playground.
Leighsw2
strictly off the record
I think we've probably gone far enough with these metaphors.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Potentially something a bit dodgy about that rally by the way.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
They rally behind a competent strongman nationalist (current conflict excepted)
This country rallies behind an incompetent lackadaisical nationalist.
Who exactly are the fools?
JimW
支那暗杀团
Stumbled into the literary jumble sale of musty tweed topcoats, as it were.
Similar threads
