cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
And, somewhat reinforces claims from the Ukrainians and western intelligence services that they are in a bit of a pickle, to say the least.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
And, somewhat reinforces claims from the Ukrainians and western intelligence services that they are in a bit of a pickle, to say the least.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Its a bit late and Im tired so I might have forgotten something really obvious, but right now I'm a little bit confused by this bit in a John Simpson piece:
Ukraine conflict: Putin lays out his demands in Turkish phone call
Russia's president revealed his peace conditions in a phone call - the BBC spoke to someone who listened in.www.bbc.co.uk
My confusion is, whats actually missing from Russias demands mentioned in the piece that we would have expected to be included?
As others have said, seems odd. But I suppose that there is nothing about regime change in Ukraine and nothing about agreeing not to join the EU?
gosub
~#
Very large hats and snipers are a bad combination
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
From the above:
A concession I believe its enough for Putin to claim a victory and stay in power, Understandable that Zelensky would agree to this and it anything that saves further bloodshed should be done, but not something many of those who have lost family to the Russians will take kindly to Imo
A concession I believe its enough for Putin to claim a victory and stay in power, Understandable that Zelensky would agree to this and it anything that saves further bloodshed should be done, but not something many of those who have lost family to the Russians will take kindly to Imo
bimble
floofy
The thing about Ukraine being "neutral" has never been defined though, what that actually means.
No NATO is one thing but as everyone knows it was never going to happen anytime remotely soon anyway. I can't see how an agreement can be reached that does not include guarantees from other countries to protect Ukraine next time Russia decides to invade it, and is that "neutrality" idk, depends if Putin is just looking to declare victory or not. I see no sign that he's just looking to save whats left of his face.
No NATO is one thing but as everyone knows it was never going to happen anytime remotely soon anyway. I can't see how an agreement can be reached that does not include guarantees from other countries to protect Ukraine next time Russia decides to invade it, and is that "neutrality" idk, depends if Putin is just looking to declare victory or not. I see no sign that he's just looking to save whats left of his face.
Tbf Ukraine has proved it can defend itself adequately from Russia without being in NATO, so this might make it an easier concession to swallow.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
'Neutral' is a movable feast - Ireland is neutral (well kind of) with military capabilities only marginally greater than your local police force. Finland is also kind of neutral, with an army of 200,000, fast jets, artillery, surface to air missiles etc...
Switzerland is properly neutral, and is tooled up to fuck.
I rather suspect that when Putin says neutral, he means Ukraine being firmly within the Russian sphere of interest, plugged into the Russian electricity grid, no fast jets, a coastguard instead of a Navy, a barely armed and barely existing army, and constitutional links with Russia...
Switzerland is properly neutral, and is tooled up to fuck.
I rather suspect that when Putin says neutral, he means Ukraine being firmly within the Russian sphere of interest, plugged into the Russian electricity grid, no fast jets, a coastguard instead of a Navy, a barely armed and barely existing army, and constitutional links with Russia...
steveseagull
Well-Known Member
Seven planes and four helicopters taken down yesterday according to Ukraine
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
That might be what Putin wants but perhaps if the reports are accurate that the Russian army is really struggling he may now think its not achievable?
rubbershoes
not the only raver in the village
And the entire Ukrainian Black Sea coast controlled by Russia
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Not exactly directly related, but just a thought, does Putin needing to use military force to secure his interests in Ukraine suggest that the accounts about sophisticated Russian techniques to influence public opinion in Europe and the US are in fact complete bollocks?
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
I assume any break for hostilities results in both sides frantically rearming at this point and Ukraine applying for NATO on the sly.
Plus minor attempts at civil war as power struggles ensue.
Plus minor attempts at civil war as power struggles ensue.
The techniques exist for sure, but it is questionable how much influence they have on electoral outcomes. Not really something falsifiable so we will never have a good answer for that.
My guess is they may have some slight influence but probably not decisive.
bimble
floofy
Yeah thats the question i think, has he adjusted his original aims to fit the circumstances or not. But if he was really just looking for a way out of the fuckup he could have done it already, declared victory instead of making terrifying speeches about purifying the nation.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Shrivenham’s got a lot tougher than the last time I went on a course there…
RedRedRose
Well-Known Member
Main points:
- In 2021 8.5 percent of state expenditure was on debt
- average wages are below five hundred euros per month
- ranked eighth in the world in terms of labor migration
- Under IMF pressure, after 2014, gas prices increased six-fold
- "Ukraine was obliged to pay creditors 15 percent of its GDP increase over 3 percent, and 40 percent of each percent of its GDP increase over 4 percent." So, its GDP increases are being gobbled up by re-servicing debt.
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
Dunno about complete bollocks, but I've long felt it has been blown out of all proportion, mostly via the septics' Propaganda machine
bimble
floofy
the Russian MOD twitter account has stopped hiding, is visible again.
It has a video of a "refugee from Mariupol" saying that it was the azov batallion who blew up the theatre where those hundreds of children were sheltering. There are also military briefings, listing how many Ukrainian helicopters and drones etc they claim to have successfully destroyed every day but i'd give them the same credence.
It has a video of a "refugee from Mariupol" saying that it was the azov batallion who blew up the theatre where those hundreds of children were sheltering. There are also military briefings, listing how many Ukrainian helicopters and drones etc they claim to have successfully destroyed every day but i'd give them the same credence.
keybored
Well done. You remember cat good.
Maybe they're believed to offer some sort of cushioning protection from sniper fire so the bullets bounce off, like those cope cages on the tanks.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Hah, very plausible. If there's one thing you'd expect defenders to do in the middle of a siege it's use copious amounts of the troops' limited explosives to blow up their own side.
Even the Russian MOD social media guys have got to be cringing a bit at being told to try that one on.
Even the Russian MOD social media guys have got to be cringing a bit at being told to try that one on.
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Death penalty advocate Arnold Schwarzenegger has now appealed to stop the killing.
gosub
~#
To be fair to the dead generals ,whom gave their life to a folly of a war , as the one pictured up thread they've died in battle fatigues rather the rediculous dress uniform .
Silly thought more than anything
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
Not going to defend the death penalty, but I don't think it's wildly inconsistent for Schwarzenegger to advocate executing the San Francisco Strangler or the San Diego Decapitator or whoever while also calling for an end to the slaughter of Ukrainian civilians, tbf.
Supine
Newt Member
Really nice web site / story with war status
ig.ft.com
How Russia’s mistakes and Ukrainian resistance altered Putin’s war
Moscow’s initial hopes of lightning-fast victory foundered in face of fierce opposition and its own shortcomings
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Sure. And FWIW, I think he's doing more good than harm given his global megastar status in Russia.
It's just a shame that the man has actually signed off on executions, somewhat tainting the message a little.
elbows
Well-Known Member
My skepticism is less about whether those setbacks were real, more about the full implication of those setbacks and whether they meant Russia couldnt make more progress in future. And I was especially skeptical when these claims were made at a time when Russian gains could still be seen happening on war maps. Since then the maps have changed little when it comes to the north and Kyiv, and with every day that this remains the case it seems the word 'stalled' gains credibility. There are still limits as to how far I can run with these ideas, but my stance inevitably starts to shift as more estimates of when large Russian action in the north will resume are missed. All the same, I still cannot make confident claims that Russia cannot possibly make more gains in the Kyiv region.
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