Transphobes gunning hard for 'paedophilia' angle all of a sudden

[SpookyFrank]

All words are made up.

Some words are made up in order to better convey information. Other words are made up in order to insinuate shit things about innocent people; like their supposed membership of a cult, religion or political movement that simply doesn't exist.

 

[Shechemite]

Innocent people - particularly those who struggle with self esteem or feeling comfortable in their own skin, or don’t experience social/familial acceptance - sadly do get themselves involved in cults. That’s part of the tragedy of it

 

[hitmouse]

This tangent started with a discussion of the word "transgenderism". Do you think that transgenderism is a cult?

 

[Shechemite]

I wouldn’t use the term ‘transgenderism’ as (believe it or not) I don’t want to risk throwing my lot in with people who assert that there’s a ‘transgender conspiracy to take over the world’ or whatever. I do think that a ‘community’ made up of high functioning neurodivergents (like myself) who (unlike myself) have a strong sense of alienation from their families and from wider society, and who’s political activity consists largely of exacerbating that alienation (like having a go at ‘cis/heteronormative’ people, or holding up banners saying ‘arm trans kids’) can be described as a cult.

I think a lot of things are cults though: Judaism for example. And a lot of the movement we’re discussing here reminds of early Christians going out of their way to annoy the romans to get themselves martyred.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I wouldn’t use the term ‘transgenderism’ as (believe it or not) I don’t want to risk throwing my lot in with people who assert that there’s a ‘transgender conspiracy to take over the world’ or whatever. I do think that a ‘community’ made up of high functioning neurodivergents (like myself) who (unlike myself) have a strong sense of alienation from their families and from wider society, and who’s political activity consists largely of exacerbating that alienation (like having a go at ‘cis/heteronormative’ people, or holding up banners saying ‘arm trans kids’) can be described as a cult.

Wasn't your tagline, 'arm the mentally ill' for quite a while?

 

[SpookyFrank]

And a lot of the movement we’re discussing here reminds of early Christians going out of their way to annoy the romans to get themselves martyred.

So people are getting themselves abused and mistreated on purpose are they?

 

[Cloo]

I can't find the link now, but apparently there's been a recent YouGov poll about public attitudes towards trans people, and as I suspected, most people have not been engaged in reading/hearing about trans people (at 66% who say they don't read or know much about a bit lower than I'd expect), and most people (75% overall) being positive about trans people. Which is still too low, but I wish someone would show this to the two major political parties so they'd stop treating 0.5% of the population as an electoral issue.

Also noteworthy - the most supportive subsection of society towards trans people? Cis lesbian and bisexual women. So, surprise surprise, queer cis women do not feel they need defending from 'being forced to sleep with trans women' or lesbian 'erasure' from the existence of trans men.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

All words are made up.

Some words are more made up than others.

Seriously though - to pick me up on that of all things. Have you got nothing better to do?

99.99999% of words I use have not been made up by me, nor in most cases by anyone in centuries. But that was a word that was made up recently by some git to help to promote their agenda of hatred. (so long ago I can't remember what the word was now). But then you knew that.

(Blanket ignore for everyone there because i don't have the energy to deal with twats who probably only pick me up on petty stuff because they're too scared to say the openly transphobic stuff).

 

[krtek a houby]

So people are getting themselves abused and mistreated on purpose are they?

Clearly asking for it, what with their visibility, banners and slogans.

If only they'd know their place, everything would be so much better.

What a cult.

 

[hitmouse]

I hate it when people go out of their way to annoy people around them to get a hostile reaction. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's people being deliberately inflammatory to get a reaction. Now, getting back to what I was saying about how everyone except me is eugenicist cultists who want the police to taser autistic kids...

 

[friendofdorothy]

Neighbour who is normally quite sound came out with some odd ideas yesterday. I said I'm off to a picnic, with my older queer group. She said queer? You can't say that now! She knows I'm LGBT and is cool with it. I said I can say queer, but you shouldn't, and talked about reclaiming insults. She started saying something about people calling themselves "minor attracted" using the word queer . . .

 

[SpookyFrank]

Neighbour who is normally quite sound came out with some odd ideas yesterday. I said I'm off to a picnic, with my older queer group. She said queer? You can't say that now! She knows I'm LGBT and is cool with it. I said I can say queer, but you shouldn't, and talked about reclaiming insults. She started saying something about people calling themselves "minor attracted" using the word queer . . .

'Minor attracted persons' is a TERF trope isn't it? Or a far-right trope the TERF's picked up and ran with. Scary how much of this kind of shit has reached so many normal, basically decent people.

 

[ddraig]

'Minor attracted persons' is a TERF trope isn't it? Or a far-right trope the TERF's picked up and ran with. Scary how much of this kind of shit has reached so many normal, basically decent people.

very much this, depressing

 

[cesare]

'Minor attracted persons' is a TERF trope isn't it? Or a far-right trope the TERF's picked up and ran with. Scary how much of this kind of shit has reached so many normal, basically decent people.

It might be "minor-attracted" IE attracted to minors, ugh what a horrible term.

 

[SpookyFrank]

It might be "minor-attracted" IE attracted to minors, ugh what a horrible term.

Yes I get the idea. The narrative is that nonces have supposedly rebranded and now want to be part of the LGBTQ umbrella, and if we've already let the transes in then where does it end eh?

Basically the same shit they did with gay people in the era of section 28.

 

[cesare]

Yes I get the idea. The narrative is that nonces have supposedly rebranded and now want to be part of the LGBTQ umbrella, and if we've already let the transes in then where does it end eh?

Basically the same shit they did with gay people in the era of section 28.

Looks like it

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Yes I get the idea. The narrative is that nonces have supposedly rebranded and now want to be part of the LGBTQ umbrella, and if we've already let the transes in then where does it end?

ANSWER: "It begins and ends with consent, which by definition minors can't do. That's a pretty obvious difference between a nonce and a LGBT person and why we will never accept so-called MAPs however much they might try to hijack us, and you're disgusting for suggesting we might."

 

[SpookyFrank]

ANSWER: "It begins and ends with consent, which by definition minors can't do. That's a pretty obvious difference between a nonce and a LGBT person and why we will never accept so-called MAPs however much they might try to hijack us, and you're disgusting for suggesting we might."

Yeah I reckon these people could put all that together by themselves is they wanted to. They don't want to though, because they know that rational thought doesn't support their bigotry at all.

 

[krtek a houby]

Some American old timee guy on another site years back, would call you "punk" if he'd a problem with your stance. Fucker said I'd be happier with nambla than "normal" people or something along those lines.

Had no idea what it meant.

So stupidly, I googled the term. At work.

There was no comeback, but fuck knows how would have explained it, if it ever got flagged up.

 

[CNT36]

Some American old timee guy on another site years back, would call you "punk" if he'd a problem with your stance. Fucker said I'd be happier with nambla than "normal" people or something along those lines.

Had no idea what it meant.

So stupidly, I googled the term. At work.

There was no comeback, but fuck knows how would have explained it, if it ever got flagged up.

Don't want to do the same...

 

[Cloo]

I did once have a reaction from an older lesbian online along the lines of 'Don't use "queer", that used to be the last thing we'd hear as we were being beaten to death', and I can get why some people aren't comfortable with it in that respect.

 

[8ball]

I did once have a reaction from an older lesbian online along the lines of 'Don't use "queer", that used to be the last thing we'd hear as we were being beaten to death', and I can get why some people aren't comfortable with it in that respect.

A mate of mine hates the word for the same reason.

 

[krtek a houby]

Don't want to do the same...

Best not.

 

[krtek a houby]

I did once have a reaction from an older lesbian online along the lines of 'Don't use "queer", that used to be the last thing we'd hear as we were being beaten to death', and I can get why some people aren't comfortable with it in that respect.

Yeah, which is why usually say LGBT rather than LGBTQ.

Just haven't got used to the word being reclaimed.

 

[Cloo]

Some people also object because they think its just used by poseurs who 'aren't really gay',aka boy gay enough for them.

 

[lazythursday]

And the far right line of attack is that 'queer' is all encompassing and includes 'minor attracted persons' who have been welcomed under that umbrella. Usually evidenced by some out of context extract of an obscure academic paper broadly in the queer theory tradition.

 

[Cloo]

Then there's this piece of crap from Spiked (not that I'd expect any better) How pornography forged the trans movement

The old 'John Money invented being trans and he was a paedo, so being trans is pervy and weird' (despite the fact that trans people have existed since forever and I think we can say didn't need to be 'invented', and 'trans is wrong because some trans women have sissy slave type fantasies'

 

[Puddy_Tat]

blargh

i still haven't quite adjusted to 'queer' being an acceptable word, although i suppose it's reasonable to have something that includes anyone who isn't quite L, G, B or T but who isn't really a gender conforming heterosexual.

and nonces trying to get in to semi-respectability under the gay rights (and successor) banner isn't entirely new - didn't p.i.e. try to get on the coat tails of what was happening in the 80s? and i vaguely remember getting something in the 90s when i was on the committee of a 'switchboard' organisation about some umbrella 'sexual minorities' thing which we decided not to touch with the proverbial.

from where i'm sitting, any nonce who tries to ally with us can fuck off, but there isn't an official committee to approve membership. not of course that it stops the far right using that against 'us'

Yeah, which is why usually say LGBT rather than LGBTQ.

at one point, or in some circumstances, the Q was 'questioning'

 

[8ball]

blargh

i still haven't quite adjusted to 'queer' being an acceptable word, although i suppose it's reasonable to have something that includes anyone who isn't quite L, G, B or T but who isn't really a gender conforming heterosexual.

and nonces trying to get in to semi-respectability under the gay rights (and successor) banner isn't entirely new - didn't p.i.e. try to get on the coat tails of what was happening in the 80s? and i vaguely remember getting something in the 90s when i was on the committee of a 'switchboard' organisation about some umbrella 'sexual minorities' thing which we decided not to touch with the proverbial.

from where i'm sitting, any nonce who tries to ally with us can fuck off, but there isn't an official committee to approve membership. not of course that it stops the far right using that against 'us'



at one point, or in some circumstances, the Q was 'questioning'

I remember “questioning” being in there too.
Though I also recall seeing “LGBTQQIA” as an abbreviation.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

i still haven't quite adjusted to 'queer' being an acceptable word, although i suppose it's reasonable to have something that includes anyone who isn't quite L, G, B or T but who isn't really a gender conforming heterosexual.

I've struggled with this too! I'm aro-ace and therefore not straight, but don't quite feel I've got the right to reclaim "queer" as I didn't really get any abuse or mistreatment about my sexuality due to passing as straight throughout my teens and 20s (never fancied a woman; two different boyfriends that each lasted a year or two). I was 26 when I began questioning and it's been four years since I first called myself asexual publicly and with confidence. I wouldn't have a problem if someone called me queer but it doesn't feel like my place to reclaim a slur that was never really aimed at me to start with, unless you count the odd bit of stereotyping due to my short hair, Doc Martens, preference for pints of lager over more traditionally "girlie" drinks and my mostly single life.