Transphobes gunning hard for 'paedophilia' angle all of a sudden

[Cloo]

I've seen a worrying and notable uptick in literally the last week of transphobes starting to frame everything as 'it's all paedophilia'. I know it's always been there but I'm not sure what's happened in the last week, other than a recent (extremely bullshit, from a skim read) 'Safe Schools Alliance' scare piece on an UNESCO/WHO sexuality education paper that they are quoting single words from and claiming is advocating for child sex and removal of child protections (which I'm pretty sure it isn't). It ends with 'It has been found that...' where 'it has been found' seems to translate as 'we have interpreted this to meet our agenda'. Does anyone know if anything in particular set this one off or is it just general desperation looking for fronts of attack? This one's especially concerning, as this really is a way to get trans people killed. Particularly once the Mail et al pick this bullshit up as headlines, which they will.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Can you share a link to the UNESCO paper please?

 

[Cloo]

It's two documents: Standards for Sexuality Education | BZgA WHO-CC and https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000260770

This is SSA document on them: UNESCO & WHO ‘Sexuality education’ - Safe Schools Alliance UK

Haven't read the UN material and not the SSA in detail, but alarm bells rang about the amount it seemed to quote single words like 'Sexual' or 'Injustice' from the UN documents in isolation and that it seemed to be inferring an awful lot from not very much.

 

[mojo pixy]

I've been looking around the UNESCO site and I guess the publication mentioned is this one.. International technical guidance on sexuality education: an evidence-informed approach

 

[mojo pixy]

Sorry ... that post went up before I'd finished writing because I misclicked, and anyway Cloo posted at the same moment. I will add though (edit!) that conspiraloons don't care at all about evidence so it's no surprise to see this quite reasonable paper used for their nefarious purposes

 

[LDC]

It's been notable to me when following Ukraine stuff that with any anti-Ukraine/pro-Russia stuff (even mildly) on social media you only have to go down a few posts to see something that's anti-trans and Covid conspiracy theory related as well.

 

[mojo pixy]

It's been notable to me when following Ukraine stuff that with any anti-Ukraine/pro-Russia stuff (even mildly) on social media you only have to go down a few posts to see something that's anti-trans and Covid conspiracy theory related as well.

So much extreme-right / conspiracy content has been (let's say) 'facilitated' by actors in Russia over the last 10 years or so that this is barely even surprising tbh

 

[Cid]

I think it's been a huge part of transphobia for a while (well, couple of years) tbh... Maybe less so here, or limited to the most conspiratorial side of things? But certainly in the US it's pretty mainstream, in the sense that Tucker Carlson et al are pretty mainstream.

 

[bellaozzydog]

Incredibly it’s entered the world of professional surfing stories (went down a rabbit hole today online) and rather than focus on transgender the peado lines are getting trotted out

Plucky one armed female surfer starts off with trans people aren’t fair in professional sport and end in outlier mouth pieces in the sports stating anyone in drag is a peadophile

Dangerous fucking stuff

 

[mmskyscraper]

I don’t even know why the Ts get bundled in with the LGBTQs, never mind the Ps.

I actually firmly believe most people who are anti-trans are actually anti-trans-activists, rather than anti trans folk themselves. I can see their point a lot of the time - and finding yourself on the same side as those people, even if it is for different reasons, is unsettling. It fucks up your YouTube algorithm for a start.

 

[Cid]

Incredibly it’s entered the world of professional surfing stories (went down a rabbit hole today online) and rather than focus on transgender the peado lines are getting trotted out

Plucky one armed female surfer starts off with trans people aren’t fair in professional sport and end in outlier mouth pieces in the sports stating anyone in drag is a peadophile

Dangerous fucking stuff

Yeah she specifically is very Christian iirc... Had that motivational film out a while ago and some media prominence. But 'balance' in sport is another wedge issue being heavily pushed by the right. That's the danger of these things; start with something that is... vaguely arguable... and then reinforce and keep nudging further towards the right.

 

[Cid]

I don’t even know why the Ts get bundled in with the LGBTQs, never mind the Ps.

I actually firmly believe most people who are anti-trans are actually anti-trans-activists, rather than anti trans folk themselves. I can see their point a lot of the time - and finding yourself on the same side as those people, even if it is for different reasons, is unsettling. It fucks up your YouTube algorithm for a start.

Yeah, the entire US states trying to erase trans people would undoubtedly ease off if they would just be a bit quieter. Sure, seems legit.

 

[bmd]

This used to be (still is?) attached to slurs aimed at gay men. We never learn. Humans need their devils.

 

[Cloo]

I don’t even know why the Ts get bundled in with the LGBTQs, never mind the Ps.

I actually firmly believe most people who are anti-trans are actually anti-trans-activists, rather than anti trans folk themselves. I can see their point a lot of the time - and finding yourself on the same side as those people, even if it is for different reasons, is unsettling. It fucks up your YouTube algorithm for a start.

I do see a lot of 'Oh, I'm not against trans people, just the activists' but that doesn't wash for me somehow. It's a bit like the 'Nothing against Jews, just the Rothschilds' - either way does harm and aligns with people who do harm.

Most trans activists are 'acting' for trans people to just live their lives in peace free of harassment.

 

[Rob Ray]

The "anti-trans activists" bit seems to be based on the classic misdirect of "look here's a handful of outlier cases of pro-trans people doing something unpleasant, this is indicative of all pro-trans activism and trans people generally." The far-right love this strategy, use it all the time, and it's deeply pathetic to see people who'd immediately call this shit out when applied to muslims or gay people instead jumping in for a good old root around.

 

[mmskyscraper]

I do see a lot of 'Oh, I'm not against trans people, just the activists' but that doesn't wash for me somehow. It's a bit like the 'Nothing against Jews, just the Rothschilds' - either way does harm and aligns with people who do harm.

Most trans activists are 'acting' for trans people to just live their lives in peace free of harassment.

I realise this is a dangerous topic and I’m conscious of misrepresenting myself, but I will just say that whilst you’re certainly right to a point, I think I am too. I’m not talking about some EDL gorilla, I mean you average ‘this is a bit confusing tbh’ person. A lot of people - and I defo include myself in this - just don’t like being told what to think. In my experience (limited, but I do know, respect, and like a couple of trans male kids) it’s never a normal trans kid being a cock. It’s a social media cunt first, trans person second, type that annoys the shit out of people.

So, in my view only, you get people being anti trans only cos they’re fucked off with some mouthy prick, rather than even giving the remotest of fucks about what trans actually is.

(Not including Christian weirdos in this. They’ve got their own agendas).

 

[Cloo]

Absolutely I think we need to be mindful that actually at least 90% of the population have literally no skin in this game at all and are not really involved other than occasionally thinking 'well that sounds a bit off' or 'seems fair enough to me', but polls show the UK populace is generally supportive of trans rights.

Both sides do their share of 'nut picking', ie finding the worst behaviour and projecting it as normal or typical. And I'm sure Russian etc interference enjoys magnifying that aspect both ways.

 

[Epona]

I can't even look at all this stuff tbh, it's too personally upsetting

 

[Knotted]

I think it's been a huge part of transphobia for a while (well, couple of years) tbh... Maybe less so here, or limited to the most conspiratorial side of things? But certainly in the US it's pretty mainstream, in the sense that Tucker Carlson et al are pretty mainstream.

Matt Walsh seems to be the main instigator of this. The Republicans went hard on this issue during the mid-terms and the Tories look set to follow.

 

[Cloo]

I can't even look at all this stuff tbh, it's too personally upsetting

I know, I feel so angry and upset about it, I had to give up looking at assume stuff yesterday because it made me so frustrated. Especially when it's women who are being mouthpieces for the people who are putting money behind this bullshit, who are hoping that after The Trans they can come for LGB people and then women's rights. They're doing pretty well at that in America after all.

 

[krtek a houby]

Said it before, but the anti-trans rhetoric and anti-lgbt rhetoric is extremely worrying. Feel like we're on the precipice of something horrific.

 

[smokedout]

I don’t even know why the Ts get bundled in with the LGBTQs, never mind the Ps.

I'll presume good faith but probably regret it. The Ts are bundled up with the LGBs because heterosexual society bundled us together. Laws against cross dressing were used to attack gay people leading directly to the Stonewall riots. Gays and lesbians were attacked for not being 'proper' men or women. Society has historically stigmatised all those who break conventional norms relating to gender and sexuality and homophobes don't stop to ask the gender identity of people before putting the boot in. LGBTQ people were queers, benders and fags and no-one really gave a fuck whether they were gay, trans, bi, or something else.

In addition to this many trans people identify as LGB and almost all trans people are likely to face homophobia regardless of what people's views might be on whether someone is a man or woman. A cis man in a relationship with a trans man will face homophobia, whether that's a double hotel room suddenly becoming booked because it's under two male names, or stigmatisation at work for talking about his boyfried or violence and abuse in the street for holding his boyfriend's hand. For all these reasons it is understandable why there is historical solidarity between LGBTQ people and it's difficult not to be suspicious when straight/cis people attempt to prise that solidarity apart at a time when all those under that banner are facing renewed attacks.

If you think there is a world where conservative forces will eliminate trans men and women but leave butch lesbians and camp gay men alone you are dangerously naive - just look at what's happening to drag queens.

As to adding the P to the LGBTQ grow up. Nobody is proposing that, it's a transphobic slur intended to do exactly what the topic of this thread is talking about and link trans people (and LGB people who support them) to paedophilia. Perhaps try watching something else on youtube.

 

[Cloo]

Said it before, but the anti-trans rhetoric and anti-lgbt rhetoric is extremely worrying. Feel like we're on the precipice of something horrific.

This is part of the reason I think it's imperative to get the Tories out at the next election. Yes, even if it means voting Labour. They're pretty shit and just being Tory lite, but I think if they get into power the culture wars will not be a priority for them as they are for the Tories.

The Tories are reliant on them as they can no longer claim to be 'the party of fiscal management' and they don't want to make the effort of doing anything to help any ordinary people. But making policies to shit on outgroups, like trans people, queer people, immigrants, disabled people and benefit claimants is easy and pretty cheap. They are well invested in culture wars and those who support them will be increasingly invested, directly or indirectly, in steering another Tory government towards shoving queerness back in the closet and reversing women's and workers' rights. For all Labour's imperfections, I think those influences would have a harder time getting a grip on them and they'd be more focused on other things.

 

[Cid]

On the 'it's the activists argument'. First obviously this gets trotted out against every civil rights movement all the time. Thinking back to the 90s where it became a cliche/'joke' that 'I'm fine with what the gays do at home, just wish they wouldn't shove it down our throats, eh?!'. Or recently huge amounts of commentary on BLM. There are elements of truth in there of course... But in civil rights more than anything else, people don't chose their allies. When there is discrimination against a whole class of people with nothing to link them beyond gender/skin colour/sexuality etc, you necessarily get people who aren't great for 'optics'.

What we do when we revive that excuse is put blame for failings back on the oppressed group. We don't ask why the BBC or graun is focusing on this specific shitty behaviour rather than the wider movement, or isn't offering a balanced explainer as a counter (certainly never leading with one). We don't ask why there isn't a backlash among the 'allies with doubts' saying that that shitty behaviour isn't representative, and that you should have a read of someone else. Instead we get someone wandering into a thread about just how horrific transphobia is getting and coming out with a 'well acksherly it's the optics'. Probably an unfair characterisation of mmskyscraper , but frankly if trans people have to put up with being lumped in with poor actors, then so can they.

I would say that the history here also quite clearly indicates against it 'just' being a response to people being annoying on twitter. Firstly of course it's just that; history. This has played out so many times, long before social media. Secondly, and I know this will come as a shock to twitter types, most people do not have one single clue about what's happening on twitter. Middle aged Radio 4 listeners who signed up once to see what was going on. People who still await the reassuring thud of the guardian/mail as it drops through the letterbox. That is the bedrock of transphobia here. Finally, and I think most importantly, throughout this crisis there has been a strong wave of intellectual transphobia. Transphobic views have been written up and published in media of record here; The Times, The BBC, The Guardian. This is a deep running thread that has had people uniting with their most bitter foes over hatred of a specific group. It cannot be explained away or excused by lazily suggesting that the majority of it is just a response to people doing civil rights wrong.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

I must say i haven't noticed any recent uptick on this apart from that generally transphobia in the media and in politics has been on the rise ever since i transitioned about 10 years ago.
I mean I've been called a pedo by random people ever since i transitioned, and as you say, the subtext has always been there. I think maybe we've crossed into a new age where transphobes feel emboldened enough that they don't feel the need to hide it from other cis people.

 

[mmskyscraper]

I'll presume good faith but probably regret it. The Ts are bundled up with the LGBs because heterosexual society bundled us together. Laws against cross dressing were used to attack gay people leading directly to the Stonewall riots. Gays and lesbians were attacked for not being 'proper' men or women. Society has historically stigmatised all those who break conventional norms relating to gender and sexuality and homophobes don't stop to ask the gender identity of people before putting the boot in. LGBTQ people were queers, benders and fags and no-one really gave a fuck whether they were gay, trans, bi, or something else.

In addition to this many trans people identify as LGB and almost all trans people are likely to face homophobia regardless of what people's views might be on whether someone is a man or woman. A cis man in a relationship with a trans man will face homophobia, whether that's a double hotel room suddenly becoming booked because it's under two male names, or stigmatisation at work for talking about his boyfried or violence and abuse in the street for holding his boyfriend's hand. For all these reasons it is understandable why there is historical solidarity between LGBTQ people and it's difficult not to be suspicious when straight/cis people attempt to prise that solidarity apart at a time when all those under that banner are facing renewed attacks.

If you think there is a world where conservative forces will eliminate trans men and women but leave butch lesbians and camp gay men alone you are dangerously naive - just look at what's happening to drag queens.

As to adding the P to the LGBTQ grow up. Nobody is proposing that, it's a transphobic slur intended to do exactly what the topic of this thread is talking about and link trans people (and LGB people who support them) to paedophilia. Perhaps try watching something else on youtube.

I never suggested P should be added, you’ve misunderstood my point which was highlighting that P shouldn’t be in there. Which was, you’ll remember, the point of the OP.
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the other part, although not so much for assuming i was trying to cause divisions. Maybe you’re just used to being attacked. Or maybe it’s just your hormones love. (JOKE).

I’m out now anyway. I posted that I was wary of being misrepresented, and clearly you don’t want ‘centrist’ (if that is a loose analogy) allies, so I’ll just let you fight your own fight.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

This is part of the reason I think it's imperative to get the Tories out at the next election. Yes, even if it means voting Labour. They're pretty shit and just being Tory lite, but I think if they get into power the culture wars will not be a priority for them as they are for the Tories.

No - Labour will just pivot everything on being anti trans as is completely clear from recent statements by Starmer.

 

[Cloo]

It's interesting how people conflate 'being noisy on twitter' as being 'powerful and well funded' - this description is said of both transphobic and trans rights are views, but it's pretty clear whose narrative is being backed up with money and being upheld by most mainstream media.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

Or maybe it’s just your hormones love. (JOKE).

Bloody hell

 

[danny la rouge]

Or maybe it’s just your hormones love.

That’s not a very helpful “joke”. Not helpful at all.