littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah, but this is a little different. It isn't a vote to approve a treaty, which can always be tweaked and presented again.
Tory UK EU Exit Referendum
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No it doesn't. There are political realities to consider.
It's not a question of faith in liberal democracy. I certainly don't have that - the nature of the choice represented by this referendum demonstrates very clearly how bankrupt it is.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Darth May slys in, Jonsons out in the cold. I was just checking and may wants out of the ooman rites stuff cos she got burned by abu hamza case that time. I've always said she's waiting to take the crown
yes. And the fact is one faction of capitalists, the exiters are holding a smaller stick against the remainers. Thats why the question will be repeated
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The same faction - capitalists - will be in charge whatever the result. And we'll have to agree to disagree, I think - there are other considerations, such as the maintenance of the appearance of democracy, to take into account. Plus, there can be a changing of the guard without a fall of government. Cameron out, whoever in, the process of turning an exit from the eu to the maximum advantage of the rich starts in earnest.
To be crystal-clear, this has nothing to do with having faith in the system.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
In the event of an brexit vote there's no way the UK politicians would be able to ignore the result, however slim the majority. The lines have been clearly drawn on tht front.
What the Eu choose to do is a different matter. Juncker was quoted in an interview with Der Siegel yesterday saying that "a deserter is never welcomed back with open arms" (adding his little dig immediately after saying how dignified he is for keeping out of the debate until now - the slippery cunt he is).
This Deserteur labelling is fairly telling, and that's why in the event of an exit vote, its more important to keep an eye on how the Eu commissioners decide to react short term than the governing conservative party. In all likelihood there'll be bribes and threats like the past referendum results elsewhere in the continent. It'll look like they're ignoring democracy, but they're well trained for this scenario and I'd expect them to throw all their resources to scupper a brexit vote. The commission simply can't afford that the UK gets to the point where it defines an exit process, because they know at that point their game's up. Other countries will follow. Most of the Mediterranean/ peripheral states (including France), Holland.
This is more about their existence than the UKs.
Personally, I can see them getting vindictive, instigating symbolic UK job losses at Airbus, BMW, Thales etc all completly overblown in the media (whilst the same companies are opening factories no end in the US and China currently).
The UK electorate will be left with a blunt choice between accepting democracy or short term financial security and that's where a brexit result would most likely be ignored - by the public bottling it post brexit referendum.
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Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
And even though a larger % say remain is what they want, they won't be that fussed either way and will ensure the gig is rigged for them to win whatever.
So for us little people it makes no real difference, an out vote will deliver some lols as pig Fucker and Gideot slink off, but the same cunts will be really be running things and throwing us the same scraps.
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
differing factions of capitalist. And the ones who are remain have the machinery and the power. The exiteers have enough clout and electoral backing to make this difficult but in the long run I just don't see it.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Why would I want to take those companies out of the equation. Companies like Nissan, Honda, Matsushita who make here for the EU market are what I am talking about. If they have a tariff barrier put between them and their market, it is likely their next investments won't be here.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
If Leave does win (not likely) I'd put good money on their being a second referendum to ensure "democratic legitimacy". After all Johnson has already said that he'd be in favour of such a strategy.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
I cant see a narrow win for brexit resulting in actual brexit - they will find some way to repeat the exercise - maybe another vote on what sort of Brexit people want that includes an "actually - lets stay" option following some minor tinkering wrt the UK's position in the EU.
Such a potentially massive change based on a few % points of a vote would be challenged both by the powerful forces of of the establishment that suport remain and from popular opposition - especially in Scotland and Norn Iron.
It will be an absolute cluster fuck. Im tempted to vote "brexit" just for the shit and giggles that would result.
Such a potentially massive change based on a few % points of a vote would be challenged both by the powerful forces of of the establishment that suport remain and from popular opposition - especially in Scotland and Norn Iron.
It will be an absolute cluster fuck. Im tempted to vote "brexit" just for the shit and giggles that would result.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Well apart from all those other people who were in favour of a referendum
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Why is he on sky? what % of voters will be reached by that?Uh oh....
Didn't we have a thread on this sort of thing?
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
I explained up-thread how the UK is the Eu's largest export market. Why the fuck would the Eu, after losing one of its few net contributors, then want to penalise their best customer with punitive tariffs? (one's that currently don't exist for other non Eu european trading partners)
If that's the kind of diplomacy and business the Eu wants to conduct, then fuck 'em. Better out.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the stance of the chalfonts ridden.he's wet himself
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Show me a link that confirms the UK is the EU's biggest export market because I think I have seen figures showing it only represents about 3% of EU exports. Whereas the EU represents 40% of the UK's exports.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
loads. Nuff people have sky. if I had the money I'd continue to steal via torrents rather than give murdoch any money but loads of people use sky and its a canny demographic to speak to in his terms
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it was me that linked to that 3% figure "spouted" in this Economist article (bear in mind, the Economist is very biased on this vote) where they're obviously trying to debunk the 16% figure being used by team brexit.
The funny bit is, the Econimomist ran an article only 2 months previously contradicting itself by stating a 6.6% figure.
A bit miffed by this, I crunched the numbers of the official data (links kindly provided by gosub) and the 16% figure checked out!
The 40% figure is total (see the HMRC site) which includes financial services. Above, I'm talking purely about manufactured goods.
So representing those numbers together is like comparing bent apples with straight bananas.
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free spirit
more tea vicar?
2 different figures, economist is quoting the UK exports as a percentage of GDP rather than as a percentage of exports.Yeah, it was me that linked to that 3% figure "spouted" in this Economist article (bear in mind, the Economist is very biased on this vote) where they're obviously trying to debunk the 16% figure being used by team brexit.
The funny bit is, the Econimomist ran an article only 2 months previously contradicting itself by stating a 6.6% figure.
A bit miffed by this, I crunched the numbers of the official data (links kindly provided by gosub) and the 16% figure checked out!
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Sky News is free, isn't it? I can see it & I certainly don't pay Murdoch for the 'privilege'.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Which 2 figures from the 3 I mentioned?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
and so we descend into barbarism
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
free spirit
more tea vicar?
the 2 that were originally being queried, 16% vs 3%.
16% is exports to UK as percentage of exports, 3% is exports to UK as percentage of GDP
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
OK Cheers, so the 6.6% figure from the economist is the real one to compare to the 16% one from that brexit site? (total export %)
I still cant see how they come up with 6.6% though, and either way, the numbers from the Eu still makes us the EUs biggest export destination (with >16% of total)
gosub
~#
Some out moded concepts of manufacture here, firstly more cars assembled in UK than ever, second they are assembled from bits made all over the place barriers to that trade hurt quickly of you actually look at the quality of the bits. Cars come up cos thats the prime import export interaction, only two EU nations do we have a trade deficit with Germany top. It's France pushing for reprisals
Oh and stuff we send to Rotherham or A twerp to go out on bigger container ships to the rest of the world count as UK exports to Belgium or Holland. and global exports for Holland or Belgium
Oh and stuff we send to Rotherham or A twerp to go out on bigger container ships to the rest of the world count as UK exports to Belgium or Holland. and global exports for Holland or Belgium
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gosub
~#
To Joe soap sat in Brixton is probably like not leaving but we'd be out of CAP (transition needs managing) and CFP, the way we chip money in changes with about 40% to be directly invested in poorer states, and our seats on global governance reflect UK position not common EU one. Not in European Parliament, but a lot of the rest of the stuff is a la carte but would probably be the same.
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