Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[littlebabyjesus]

Heffer is such a cunt. 'White Commonwealth'? Of all the allusions he could have made... It's not even a very good one in this context.

 

[teuchter]

yeh but this only shows the paucity of your imagination and of your political nous.

if there's a vote to leave, the people like nigel farage have got what they want and are very likely to find the dish not to their taste. what does ukip have to offer once this is over? fuck all, really. all the people who have nailed their right wing colours to the exit mast will, i believe, struggle to remain relevant post-referendum. nigel farage will be spending more time with his pint.

what an exit vote would throw up is a new political situation in which more progressive forces might do very well. we know we won't get socialism through europe, we know the eu would stifle any attempts at real change (see e.g. greece), but we don't know what a bit of hard work might produce in a new political reality in which the tories and ukip are struggling to adjust to.

So we get rid of UKIP by giving them what they want

 

[stethoscope]

So we get rid of UKIP by giving them what they want

I'm with Pickman's on this. UKIP will end up a spent force. They'll have fuck all left to make any noise about 'how the EU stopped this and that' - they've got shit all else to offer as a party - one trick ponies on the Europe issue.

Farage doesn't even hate the EU that much - he gets a tidy salary plus expenses from it. It's all posturing.

 

[gosub]

I'm with Pickman's on this tbh. UKIP will end up a spent force. They'll have fuck all left to make any noise about 'how the EU stopped this and that' - they've got shit all else to offer as a party - one trick ponies on the Europe issue.

Farage doesn't even hate the EU that much - he gets a tidy salary plus expenses from it.

The anti EU bits of UKIP, I'd agree, but its predominantly an anti immigration party these days and which ever way the referendum goes that isn't going to get touched. Leave and Nigel can whinge betrayal after we stay in the single whinge, remain and you've got Lab and Tory voters who aren't going to be happy with their current party.

 

[stethoscope]

The anti EU bits of UKIP, I'd agree, but its predominantly an anti immigration party these days and which ever way the referendum goes that isn't going to get touched. Leave and Nigel can whinge betrayal after we stay in the single whinge, remain and you've got Lab and Tory voters who aren't going to be happy with their current party.

All parties and their core voters in turmoil? Sounds like my idea of heaven tbh.

 

[gosub]

All parties and their core voters in turmoil? Sounds like my idea of heaven tbh.

all except the SNP I'd say

 

[stethoscope]

I agree that there will be an anti-immigration party, whatever happens with the EU vote. But UKIPs immigration position is very firmly rooted in 'leave EU and we'll take back our borders' in regards to immigration. Given they've only managed to amass a single MP in all this time in Carswell (who defected from being a Tory MP anyway), and who's been engaged in a power game with Farage for the last year or so, I think UKIP have shot their load already.

 

[DotCommunist]

I agree that there will be an anti-immigration party, whatever happens with the EU vote. But UKIPs immigration position is very firmly rooted in 'leave EU and we'll take back our borders' in regards to immigration. Given they've only managed to amass a single MP in all this time in Carswell (who defected from being a Tory MP anyway), and who's been engaged in a power game with Farage for the last year or so, I think UKIP have shot their load already.

isn't that due to electoral maths though? they got 4 mill votes and I know they have councillors and ward presence plus tons of soft support. I'm not sure leave would finish them.. Even the libs still have a shitty rump

 

[stethoscope]

isn't that due to electoral maths though? they got 4 mill votes and I know they have councillors and ward presence plus tons of soft support. I'm not sure leave would finish them.. Even the libs still have a shitty rump

Well probably not finish them tbh, but if the Tories have a leadership battle post a leave (or even a narrow stay), and through that they elect a new leader who moves the party firmly down a eurosceptic/stay out of EU line, then what effect will that have on UKIP? How many UKIP voters and councillors are basically lapsed Tories and go back to them?*


* I realise they've picked up ex Labour voters too

 

[stethoscope]

(this is all supposition from me like, anyone with an informed analysis of this stuff welcome)

 

[teuchter]

I'm with Pickman's on this. UKIP will end up a spent force. They'll have fuck all left to make any noise about 'how the EU stopped this and that' - they've got shit all else to offer as a party - one trick ponies on the Europe issue.

Farage doesn't even hate the EU that much - he gets a tidy salary plus expenses from it. It's all posturing.

Simply cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - unless there are other very good reasons to leave.

If there's a good argument to leave the EU then make it, but depriving Nigel Farage of his salary certainly isn't that argument.

 

[stethoscope]

Simply cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - unless there are other very good reasons to leave.

If there's a good argument to leave the EU then make it, but depriving Nigel Farage of his salary certainly isn't that argument.

I've linked to a few articles on this thread, one which put forward a pro-working class, pro-left case for exit. Did you read them? I'm not going to fish them out for you.

 

[J Ed]

Simply cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - unless there are other very good reasons to leave.

If there's a good argument to leave the EU then make it, but depriving Nigel Farage of his salary certainly isn't that argument.

There are no good reasons to leave but I can't think of any to stay.

 

[DotCommunist]

There are no good reasons to leave but I can't think of any to stay.

I believe the clash done a song expressing similar sentiments

 

[gosub]

Simply cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - unless there are other very good reasons to leave.

If there's a good argument to leave the EU then make it, but depriving Nigel Farage of his salary certainly isn't that argument.

Ah hadn't thought about the revenue streams (sorry, I do share your sentiment) not really relevant to the referendum, interesting none the less

 

[stethoscope]

Simply cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - unless there are other very good reasons to leave.

If there's a good argument to leave the EU then make it, but depriving Nigel Farage of his salary certainly isn't that argument.

Besides, if you'd actually read the thread, you'd know that my post above wasn't an 'argument' for leaving the EU - I was just supporting something Pickman's had said about what effect it might have on UKIP.

 

[Libertad]

I believe the clash done a song expressing similar sentiments

If I go there will be trouble,
An' if I stay it will be double.

 

[J Ed]

Cameron wouldn't last 30 seconds if he lost EU vote, says Ken Clarke

 

[gosub]

There are no good reasons to leave but I can't think of any to stay.

Burn away the bullshit.

 

[stethoscope]

Today's caption competition…

 

[Santino]

Today's caption competition…

Three people who used to lead political parties.

 

[butchersapron]

 

[DotCommunist]

not a caption as such but honestly who wears a 'britain stronger!' t-shirt?

'ENGLAND PREVAILS' etc

 

[gosub]

Today's caption competition…

Yes Mr Juncker, I know I said Nick Clegg would be a good Commissioner, but I'm going to need another job.

 

[gosub]

Why global governance is making the EU irrelevant

 

[hot air baboon]

not a caption as such but honestly who wears a 'britain stronger!' t-shirt?

Britain Stronger in Europe is the pro-business EU remain group.....and yes they actually came up with the initials BSE....

 

[hot air baboon]

Why global governance is making the EU irrelevant

...the fact we've still got a permanent UN security council seat ( & use it pretty much exclusively as a US rubber stamp ) must seriously peeve a load of Brussels pen-pushers...

 

[redsquirrel]

Government realising that the changes to registration designed to reduce the students vote might backfire on this issue.

The All Party Parliamentary Group on Democratic Participation will this week raise concerns about the number of people who are not registered to vote. Its chair, Chloe Smith, the Conservative MP for Norwich North, said: “The deadline to register to vote for the EU referendum, one of the most important political decisions of our lifetime, is fast approaching. With around 50% of under-35s planning to vote on 23 June – compared with 80% of over-55s – it’s now vital that young people take action and ensure they’re registered. With the outcome of the referendum likely to affect young people the most, whether that’s opportunities to work, study or travel, younger citizens shouldn’t be locked out of this once-in-a-generation decision. That means registering, sorting out a postal vote, and making a decision about whether the UK is better off in, or out, of the EU.”

 

[brogdale]

Government realising that the changes to registration designed to reduce the students vote might backfire on this issue.

Yeah, not old enough for "NLW", not old enough to be arsed to vote in their referendum.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Today's caption competition…

They look like they're doing prank calls asking for "Mike Hunt" or telling the person on the other end to get off the line cos there's a trains coming.