agricola
a genuine importer of owls
They were more civil wars in Scotland than English - Scottish ones; for instance a quarter of Cumberland's army at Culloden was Scots.
Tory UK EU Exit Referendum
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
They were more civil wars in Scotland than English - Scottish ones; for instance a quarter of Cumberland's army at Culloden was Scots.
newbie
undisambiguated
the closer, stronger and more federal states become the greater the threat they pose externally. See, for instance, the history of the expansion from a few states in what was called New England into what we face today.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Surely the point is that France and Germany have squared up against each other twice in recent times and each time they did they dragged loads of others into it also. The fact that they are engaged in ever closer union within the EU is therefore a good thing, and if it is good for them, why not for us also, excepting Schengen and the Euro.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I see kettering is in a solid blotch of red for eurosceptic. Not suprised.
also, lets not do the 'eu has saved us from ww3' shite again. Someone will mentioon kosovo, the cold war and its a crap non-argument. Melt.
also, lets not do the 'eu has saved us from ww3' shite again. Someone will mentioon kosovo, the cold war and its a crap non-argument. Melt.
Surely the point is that you have your cause and effect the wrong way round.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
TBF there were a number of quite complex reasons for that, not least that part of Cumberland's army were condottieres hired in from various Euro wars - mercenary companies who usually had significant Scots and Irish presences in the 17th and 18th centuries. Also Clan allegiances still played a role, with the old "enemy of my enemy.." schtick being in play.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You're somewhat putting the cart before the horse.
Even outwith the existence of the modern-day form of the EU, by the mid 1950s Germany and France were already closely-bound by a series of mutual trade treaties much more involved and all-embracing than any prior treaties. To get into conflict with each other would have endangered that.
What the EEC/EU has done is consolidated those trade bonds into a set of national raisons d'etre for France and Germany, and then used them as a superstructure on which to push through political union as both the ultimate brake on aggression, and the ultimate seal on an eventual fully-capitalist federal union.
gosub
~#
There was a question I saw on a repeat of QI the other day- "When did WW2 end?" , the tedious/QI answer it turns out was 1990, as it wasn't possible to officially end it until German reunification happened. As I said tedious, but relevant here, 40 years of that EUropean peace there was an iron curtain, nuclear stalemate and a Germany cut in-two with NATO allies parking tanks to defend a sometimes uneasy peace with the Soviets.
Since reunification is a different story, the French insisted on the single currency in order to stop a reunified Germany dominating the EU, and frankly it hasn't worked - you only have to look to the club Med countries to see that. And as the UK is outside the EUro our influence in sorting out what is a real mess is limited.
Beyond that,the EU is only just starting to militarise, while its expansionist agenda already has it rubbing up against the Russian sphere of influence. Burke said "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it" : I'd say 19th-early 20th century was 'let's build alliances so large it would be madness to go war' that meant that when local difficulties did eventually happen, it quickly escalated across an entire continent.
ffsear
Well-Known Member
gosub
~#
An €80bn kitchen sink, the effect of which didn't last as long as the speech announcing it
stupid kid
...
Just reading a few articles on the queen liz/The Sun debacle, and came across this
I left the UK four years ago, what on earth has happened? Is this real?
'Brexit' debate: Palace rejects report Queen backs leaving EU - CNN.com
I left the UK four years ago, what on earth has happened? Is this real?
'Brexit' debate: Palace rejects report Queen backs leaving EU - CNN.com
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
its always been a bone of contention in the tory ranks, camerons had a lid on it and the rise of kipperdom by promising what is now coming, the brexit reff. So now a date is set its all gloves off
The bit about the Queen backing Brexit is a piece of imaginary journalism originated by the "super soaraway Sun". Yes BJ wants Britain out of the EU, probably as a vehicle for his own aspiration to lead the Tories. The Queen is of German stock we are being told all the time on these forums so it is unlikely that she wants to separate herself from her family and close relatives. Most of the European royalty are related.
gosub
~#
stupid kid
...
Oh I get all that stuff, I know Lizzy is famously neutral and the Sun are full of shit, would love to see their "sources" get outed, if they exist, or their hacks get exposed.
I just don't get how Boris Johnson is being taken seriously and is "Charismatic and influential". My memories of him were his being sacked as Tory Arts Spokesman, and then having a couple of mates voting for him for mayor "for a laugh", because he was a fucking clown straight off the Radio 4 News Quiz.
'That's how it goes with politics these days. Just look at Trump in America. Incidentally "sources" are sacrosanct to protect the press.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
not even CNN could bring themselves to utter the words 'able' or 'accomplished' or even 'well respected'
Smangus
comatose at a desk
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
'Popular' is also what they always say about dead school kids on the news if they don't have any other accomplishments worth highlighting. It's a code word for ne'er-do-well. It's for the ones that don't even qualify for 'aspiring football player'.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Blair signals he won't play active role in EU Remain campaign - Politics live
sir tone of blair has his say and then says he won't be having more of a say. Which is nice for the remain campaign as they must have seen how effective he was when constantly piping up during the labour leadership battle
sir tone of blair has his say and then says he won't be having more of a say. Which is nice for the remain campaign as they must have seen how effective he was when constantly piping up during the labour leadership battle
Obediah Marsh
Active Member
Economic/trade consequences of a Trump presidency? If US economic policy takes a protectionist turn will Britain fare better inside or out of the EU?
The EU project is just late stage capitalism, an attempt to continue economic growth beyond the limits of surviving national culture and on the basis of perpetually increasing levels of debt, but even the EU is not exempt from demographics and the laws of economics. The EU is a mercantile project based on the trading of national sovereignty and culture for economic advantage which changes the economies of its member states so that they no longer reflect their native people or surviving national cultures by favouring the interests of the expanded mercantile middle class and the rich because of their higher market value at the expense of the working class and the poor because of their lower market value, it is this which has created a cultural vacuum at the heart of Europe which is the cause of the EU's present invasive migrant crisis which threatens to turn the EU into a culturally failed superstate.
The EU attracts the support of those who belong to the favoured middle class and who are by inclination internationalist and progressive in their beliefs and have lesser concern for issues of national culture and sovereignty and consider that loyalty to the native people and culture of their nation to be an anachronism justifying that on the grounds that that nationalism is the sole threat to peace. But the national borders of the EU member states were determined through conflict between the national cultures of Europe which established the necessary equilibrium for peace in Europe, the EU in seeking to maintain peace on the continent by effectively abolishing those national cultures disturbs that equilibrium and threatens the conditions which established peace in the longer term.
The EU attracts the support of those who belong to the favoured middle class and who are by inclination internationalist and progressive in their beliefs and have lesser concern for issues of national culture and sovereignty and consider that loyalty to the native people and culture of their nation to be an anachronism justifying that on the grounds that that nationalism is the sole threat to peace. But the national borders of the EU member states were determined through conflict between the national cultures of Europe which established the necessary equilibrium for peace in Europe, the EU in seeking to maintain peace on the continent by effectively abolishing those national cultures disturbs that equilibrium and threatens the conditions which established peace in the longer term.
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