Tory UK EU Exit Referendum
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
newbie
undisambiguated
no charade, i don't know how I'm going to vote, as the bulk of the argument hasn't yet happened. There's an obvious element of devil you know, devil you don't know inertia in me as in others, but I'm currently open minded to being persuaded one way or the other.
I know and care nothing about the BCC so let's assume you're right, their neutral stance is dishonest, and that all sectors of capital (manufacturing, services, finance, agriculture, energy and anything else) are predominantly united in their support for In because that's what they believe will make them the most money. For the sake of argument, let's assume that at all levels, national, regional and global, the vast bulk of capital and capitalists supports Britain staying in the EU, with only a few chancers and mavericks supporting Out.
What is in the best interests of the working class, both British and European, in that case?
Of course we also need to wonder about the opposite case, that the vast bulk of capital and capitalists, barring outliers, supports leaving. Again, in those circumstances, what's in the interests of the w/c?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
What are they ranking as most to least eurosceptic?
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Why is Credigion so 'europhile'?
EDIT: suppose it might be a sample size issue (170 respondents)
EDIT: suppose it might be a sample size issue (170 respondents)
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
CAP.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Yeah maybe that combined with Aberystwyth university. Still surprised that it's the most europhile place in UK though.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I saw an interesting world map on twitter a few days ago. It had marks for every battle fought in the last hundreds of years. Obviously there were a lot of marks in Europe. (Can't find the tweet now). Anyhow, this is a key reason why I want the UK to remain in the EU, I want the UK to remain and to help shape the peaceful future of the EU.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
They elected s joint Plaid/Green MP back in the day ('92?)
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
West Wales included within the EU's "Less developed region' classification (red) and therefore eligible for EU regional policy funds.
radgiesteve
Always the bridemaid
I'm undecided. I really dislike the idea of leaving the EU while the Tories are at the helm... it's a rigged game so we're probably fucked either way but if we had a few more politicians like Mhairi Black or John McDonnell standing up for the working class I'd be more confident about leaving.
If we had a few more politicians like them, we probably wouldn't be having the referendum in the first place
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Least surprising thing ever with the In/Out 'campaign' so far, this, and entirely predictable all along. But almost all the day-to-day headlines and reporting on almost all mainstream media is about the EU Referendum as Tory vs Tory. (Only exception so far seems to be stories about how different capitalists feel about it).
For anyone not that obsessed by the EU, and not that interested in internal Tory party splits/divisions, or anyone just generally apolitical, that's got to be a continuing and massive turnoff. To me included, and I've got a higher than average level of political interest more generally.
But fuck me, what a massive EU yawn!
For anyone not that obsessed by the EU, and not that interested in internal Tory party splits/divisions, or anyone just generally apolitical, that's got to be a continuing and massive turnoff. To me included, and I've got a higher than average level of political interest more generally.
But fuck me, what a massive EU yawn!
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
tbf is anyone comfortable with anything anyone has done in Ukraine? That includes the Ukrainians.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
bi0boy
Power User
Europe was riven by 10 years of war recently in case anyone forgets: Yugoslav Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not sure what the EU did to prevent that really.
Not sure what the EU did to prevent that really.
Ungrateful
Tired and Weary
Agreed that the 'EU = Peace' is bullshit, but the Balkan wars are not really counter-evidence of this questionable assertion as none of the former Yugoslav entities were part of the EU.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
That actually isn't the one that I saw but it is pretty good. Look at all the battles in Europe, a smorgasboard of violence, and yet since the EU, relative peace. Lets work to help to keep it that way, Vote to Stay In the EU!
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I think Putin outflanked the EU in the Ukraine.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
But it seems less likely that there will be a war between France and Germany while they are engaged in union via the EU. And that must be significant.
This argument may have been valid 30 years ago but it doesn't seem very relevant today. The Union seemingly put a stop to wars between England and Scotland.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh if you don't count 1715 and 1745
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
newbie
undisambiguated
It's not just Ukraine, although that's the expansionist landgrab that's led to war. It's pretty much the whole of central Europe and the Baltic coast. Geo-strategic games to detach former satellites from Russia, in accordance with NATO objectives.
Games which have taken place in parallel with deliberate blocking (until very, very recently) of longterm, repeated Turkish attempts to join the EU. Not that skin colour, religion or cultural heritage have anything to do with it.
newbie
undisambiguated
Of course it's relevant today. The union between Coatia and Serbia lasted from 1918 until they had a war shortly after Yugoslavia collapsed.
edited to make sense.
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