Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[mauvais]

But for those of us who have no desire to trek halfway across Europe for work and want a job and a home near where we grew up it's all downside.

As it is with anything if you choose to look at it that way. If you don't have any desire but to live self-sufficiently gazing at your own navel in a shack in the woods, then public services and taxation are all downside. I don't suppose that's the ideal set of lines you'd draw up though.

 

[andysays]

Well I certainly have benefitted from the EU over the last 30 years or so and I've witnessed and experienced the changes that have made me feel more and more European every year.

The question is surely not if you personally or we collectively have benefited from being in the EU for the last 30 years, it's if you/we will continue to benefit from being in it in the future. Maybe you think you personally will, but many of us think that, however much we may have benefited in the past, we collectively won't benefit by remaining in, given what the EU has become and is becoming.

Although I agree that there is some uncertainty about exactly what might happen if we do leave, I suggest that at least some of the panic about Brits currently working in other EU countries being forcibly repatriated, or not being able to holiday in continental Europe as they do now are unfounded.

We, either as individuals or collectively, won't suddenly become less European simply by virtue of choosing to leave the EU, and suggestions that we will are little more than scare-mongering.

 

[butchersapron]

What's not going to be useful for the scottish w/c is the tying of independence into being pro-neo-liberal. Has anyone seen any counter-stuff to this bosses nonsense?

 

[extra dry]

Jus-Rol pastry factory in Berwick to close with 265 jobs lost

Jobs already moving to europe. Uk wages too high for some companies.

Staying in makes moving jobs overseas to lower wage areas much easier.

I was told the packing/processing jobs are being relocated to Greece, pay a uk worker £9.20 per hour in uk compaired to £2.20 an hour in Greece.

 

[Lord Camomile]

£2.20 an hour in Greece.

That's obscene!

 

[killer b]

That's obscene!

How is this possible for a member state of the EU, which protects workers rights so assiduously?

 

[Sprocket.]

Jus-Rol pastry factory in Berwick to close with 265 jobs lost

Jobs already moving to europe. Uk wages too high for some companies.

Staying in makes moving jobs overseas to lower wage areas much easier.

I was told the packing/processing jobs are being relocated to Greece, pay a uk worker £9.20 per hour in uk compaired to £2.20 an hour in Greece.

Already done and dusted if you will excuse the pun, a mate who lives in Berwick told me about this last month. Northern powerhouse? They are having a laugh!

 

[DotCommunist]

That's obscene!

thats what they tried to vote their way out of. Being europes fucking workhouse. Obscene is the word.

 

[butchersapron]

thats what they tried to vote their way out of. Being europes fucking workhouse.

Nonsense - they pay albanians £2 20 an hour to do the work whilst they laze around on the beach - and they don't pay any tax on it either.

 

[Sprocket.]

What is sickening is that Jus-Rol and the Betty Crocker ranges primary market is here in the UK.
The MP for Berwick Anne Marie Trevelyan (con) wrote to all the major supermarkets last December, asking for their sales figures for the Jus-rol products so she could build a case against closure, citing quality and location issues as good reason for General Mills to reconsider the movement to it's site in Greece.
We can see the response by the continuation of the shutting down process.
General Mills also produce Pilsbury dough and Haagen-Dazs.

This process has been ongoing since September last year.

 

[SpookyFrank]

2. How influential is Boris really? I tend to suspect he isn't nearly as popular with non-Tories, nor even with a lot of apoliticals, as he's presented as being. Am I wrong?

I suspect he may be relatively popular with neutrals and apoliticals in London, which is where all the newspapers live, hence the papers talking him up all the time. Yesterday's Guardian had a particularly nauseating line about him being 'regularly mobbed in the street' by his adoring public, and I doubt they're talking about the same kind of mob he'd encounter if he took a stroll through my neck of the woods.

I reckon nationwide most people think he's a bad joke. I doubt you'd find three people in Scotland who'd piss on him if he was on fire.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yep I originally settled in Germany in 1992 when things weren't quite so easy and have watched the whole experience of living in other EU countries become so much easier and "normal". I'm now based in the Netherlands, own a house in Bulgaria, my girlfriend is Latvian (where I spend a lot of time too). I have taken full advantage of the freedom of movement and have found it to be a very good thing, to lose it would be crap. The main reason, apart from my personal situation, that I want the UK to remain in the EU is I have yet to see a realistic alternative being offered by the Leave group, apart from lots of rhetoric, there is nothing of substance visible.

There is nothing being offered by the 'Leave' group, bar a great deal of uncertainty. One thing I am sure of though, if I were in a partnership, and my partner fucked me around, then left, I certainly wouldn't be doing them any favours in the future.

 

[Sasaferrato]

The question is surely not if you personally or we collectively have benefited from being in the EU for the last 30 years, it's if you/we will continue to benefit from being in it in the future. Maybe you think you personally will, but many of us think that, however much we may have benefited in the past, we collectively won't benefit by remaining in, given what the EU has become and is becoming.

Although I agree that there is some uncertainty about exactly what might happen if we do leave, I suggest that at least some of the panic about Brits currently working in other EU countries being forcibly repatriated, or not being able to holiday in continental Europe as they do now are unfounded.

We, either as individuals or collectively, won't suddenly become less European simply by virtue of choosing to leave the EU, and suggestions that we will are little more than scare-mongering.

Really? What concrete evidence do you have for that view?

 

[Sasaferrato]

I suspect he may be relatively popular with neutrals and apoliticals in London, which is where all the newspapers live, hence the papers talking him up all the time. Yesterday's Guardian had a particularly nauseating line about him being 'regularly mobbed in the street' by his adoring public, and I doubt they're talking about the same kind of mob he'd encounter if he took a stroll through my neck of the woods.

I reckon nationwide most people think he's a bad joke. I doubt you'd find three people in Scotland who'd piss on him if he was on fire.

Depends on which part of Scotland I suppose.

 

[killer b]

I suspect he may be relatively popular with neutrals and apoliticals in London, which is where all the newspapers live, hence the papers talking him up all the time. Yesterday's Guardian had a particularly nauseating line about him being 'regularly mobbed in the street' by his adoring public, and I doubt they're talking about the same kind of mob he'd encounter if he took a stroll through my neck of the woods.

I reckon nationwide most people think he's a bad joke. I doubt you'd find three people in Scotland who'd piss on him if he was on fire.

According to national opinion polls conducted a couple of years ago, he's the most popular politician in the country. Not sure how that breaks down by region though.

 

[LeslieB]

As it is with anything if you choose to look at it that way. If you don't have any desire but to live self-sufficiently gazing at your own navel in a shack in the woods, then public services and taxation are all downside. I don't suppose that's the ideal set of lines you'd draw up though.

Of course not. But I also live very much in the real world. Can I introduce the following clip Inside Out East Midlands, 22/02/2016
Please give it a try- you only need to watch the first ten minutes of that. I actually come from the southern half of Derbyshire, but Shirebrook very similar area to where I come from, and yes, my accent is pretty much like that as well

Something like Sports Direct should have been a boon to a post mining town like Shirebrook, but much of the benefit has gone to incoming workers. Because there are so many potential EU workers, the workforce gets treated like shit and no one gains except the fat cats. And there is real pressure on housing and services.

This is very typical of why I'm voting 'leave'. People from the capital, jetsetters who work in Paris or Rome or Berlin, feel free to look down on me. Call me narrow minded. Call me a nationalist if you must. Call me pretty much anything apart from racist, which I tend to take exception to. But I am voting 'leave' because I want to control economic migration to the UK, and, following the pathetic offers from re-negoitation, my mind is made up.

 

[mauvais]

Something like Sports Direct should have been a boon to a post mining town like Shirebrook, but much of the benefit has gone to incoming workers. Because there are so many potential EU workers, the workforce gets treated like shit and no one gains except the fat cats. And there is real pressure on housing and services.

Haven't finished watching all of your clip yet - but why the EU?

Why not the domestic government for failing to build houses and services, failing to block the worst of cheap labour & one-sided contracts, failing to regenerate whole areas after the closure of industry? Why not Sports Direct for that matter, which exploits this amongst its many other sharp and possibly illegal practices?

I'm not even going to say that immigration hasn't hurt these communities, but why of all the available factors is the EU bogeyman looming largest in your mind?

And what would be different were it not for the EU? Immigration, maybe, although not a given by any means since the government's interests align quite well with those interested in cheap labour. But not the rest.

Plus apparently the EU gave €270m to the East Midlands in regional development whilst the domestic government does what? Small fry, I know.

 

[LeslieB]

Good post/points..

Haven't finished watching all of your clip yet - but why the EU?

Why not the domestic government for failing to build houses and services, failing to block the worst of cheap labour & one-sided contracts, failing to regenerate whole areas after the closure of industry? Why not Sports Direct for that matter, which exploits this amongst its many other sharp and possibly illegal practices?

Oh I do blame all those people/ things too. But this is an EU referendum, and so it is the EU I'm considering here.

 

[stethoscope]

Classic UKIP position innit. Blame immigration and the EU, but not neo-liberalism and right-wing UK governments. Like it's all the former's fault, and not the latter.

 

[LeslieB]

Classic UKIP position innit. Blame immigration and the EU, but not neo-liberalism and right-wing UK governments. Like it's all the former's fault, and not the latter.

The EU *is* neo-liberalism, surely. I think it is fairly right wing too.

I do blame the UK government for not setting sensible quotas on economic migrants- but then the EU wouldn't allow that. Maybe the government should have played hardball back in 2004, but that is all water under the bridge now.

 

[butchersapron]

The EU *is* neo-liberalism, surely. I think it is fairly right wing too.

I do blame the UK government for not setting sensible quotas on economic migrants- but then the EU wouldn't allow that. Maybe the government should have played hardball back in 2004, but that is all water under the bridge now.

Ha ha. Cunt.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Depends on which part of Scotland I suppose.

Every part except your house.

 

[Lo Siento.]

The EU *is* neo-liberalism, surely. I think it is fairly right wing too.

I do blame the UK government for not setting sensible quotas on economic migrants- but then the EU wouldn't allow that. Maybe the government should have played hardball back in 2004, but that is all water under the bridge now.

It was always water under the bridge. Globalised labour markets are a permanent feature of modern capitalism, not just part of being in the EU.

(For instance, the percentage of the population who are foreign-born in the UK is lower than several non-EU countries - Switzerland 28.9%, Norway 13.8%)

 

[Obediah Marsh]

I do blame the UK government for not setting sensible quotas on economic migrants- but then the EU wouldn't allow that. Maybe the government should have played hardball back in 2004, but that is all water under the bridge now.

EU members France/Germany/Italy had no difficulty restricting Eastern European immigration in 2004. (The restrictions remained in place until 2011.) The reason so many Poles and other Eastern Europeans came to Britain was because the British government allowed them to come. London not Brussels.

 

[LeslieB]

I
(For instance, the percentage of the population who are foreign-born in the UK is lower than several non-EU countries - Switzerland 28.9%, Norway 13.8%)

That is a high figure for Switzerland. I wonder how many of those are from immediately neighbouring countries and how many are from further afield.

 

[butchersapron]

That is a high figure for Switzerland. I wonder how many of those are from immediately neighbouring countries and how many are from further afield.

Why would you seek to make that distinction? We both know why.

 

[Lo Siento.]

That is a high figure for Switzerland. I wonder how many of those are from immediately neighbouring countries and how many are from further afield.

But an immigrant is an immigrant, right?

 

[LeslieB]

Why would you see to make that distinction? We both know why.

I know this might surprise you, Butchers, but I actually studied human and population geography at uni and I find these things interesting.

But an immigrant is an immigrant, right?

Yes and no.

A German family moving from one side of a mountain to another and hence into German speaking Switzerland is totally different to one coming there from Spain or Greece. Just as a family leaving Derry to live in the Donegal countryside is different to a family coming there from Turkey or North Africa., even though the statistics would count all four families as 'immigrants'

 

[Lo Siento.]

A German family moving from one side of a mountain to another and hence into German speaking Switzerland is totally different to one coming there from Spain or Greece. Just as a family leaving Derry to live in the Donegal countryside is different to a family coming there from Turkey or North Africa., even though the statistics would count all four families as 'immigrants'

Why? (Beyond the fact that all migrations are discrete events and therefore unique)

 

[butchersapron]

I know this might surprise you, Butchers, but I actually studied human and population geography at uni and I find these things interesting.

A hidden joke about refugees drowning and a colour based dog-whistle. From a poster who thinks black people can't be british. Don't waste my time. Just be honest you massive racist cunt.