Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[gosub]

So when the Brexit argument is made about being able to control immigration from EU states, if nothing will change in practical terms, how will they be able to control immigration from the EEA?

If we are still in the EEA, the UK can't control immigration, see whats happened with Switzerland since its referendum, so you have a lot of out who Mr Farage has got quite stirred up about immigration, who don't even want membership of EEA.
There are a load of differing views on what Leave should mean, even a large grouping that don't think Leave means leaving.

 

[Virtual Blue]

I'm voting out - only cos I dislike my Spanish friend (who's better at chess and can drink more than me).

 

[Lord Camomile]

Really? Do people really think he's influential (positively influential, as opposed to "if that arse thinks it's a good idea it must be bad for me")? If they think he's influential, why? What is their evidence?

It's puzzling to me why he should be thought so.

Sadly I think there are many who would be influenced by him, "because he's funny and a bit of a character", and they're more interested in that than, y'know, politics.

 

[killer b]

That said, I expect his 'popularity' is more to do with people being able to recognise who he is, and the relentless hyping by the press rather than actual genuine support.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Exactly. And even if you voted for the "lovable buffoon" shtick, does that necessarily mean you'll take his advice seriously on something like Brexit?

I don't think the people who like Boris are the sort of people who take advice seriously.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

He got a lot of help from the Standard last time around. Being a recognisable name helps. It'll be curious to see how the contest plays out this time round with two non-entities on the ticket.

He did. Hard even for a Johnson fanboi to make the case that he's been a good mayor, though, based on his record. Best that can be said of him is that he's been too busy writing his Telegraph column (for £273,000 a year, btw) or his buffoon history books to do too much damage.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Apparently the paperwork involved for my work when touring gear round Europe will become more complicated if we leave.

So far this is the only argument I've heard that I can even remotely begin to care about. The rest seems to be asking me to choose between eating two differently flavoured plates of shit.

If any of you lot can improve on that I'm all ears.

 

[Lo Siento.]

That's a fair point actually. If we vote 'out' that will, ironically, pretty much be the end of UKIP as we know it today,

Of course Farage might go on to something else, but the whole reason for being for UKIP will have gone.

Would it? Surely they'd just re-purpose the whole thing as a generic anti-immigration populist party? I mean Switzerland still has one despite not being in the EU.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Would it? Surely they'd just re-purpose the whole thing as a generic anti-immigration populist party? I mean Switzerland still has one despite not being in the EU.

Yeah, and if such a thing is possible, with added smugness. Farage could be eyeing up a place in government.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Yeah, and if such a thing is possible, with added smugness. Farage could be eyeing up a place in government.

And if ongoing membership of the EEA means a continuation of freedom of movement they probably wouldn't even have to change name.

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah, and if such a thing is possible, with added smugness. Farage could be eyeing up a place in government.

Oh No!!!!!

 

[gosub]

And if ongoing membership of the EEA means a continuation of freedom of movement they probably wouldn't even have to change name.

He would call the exit deal, that he will have no part in drawing up a 'betrayal' and carry on regardless. Its a really fine line coz we could be on the verge of an unbelievable stitchup -In/Out being the same thing, and the Out he's talking about being such economic suicide they can't let that happen either.

Sane out is still in the EEA, (the immigration issue, would not be addressed by this however).

 

[Lo Siento.]

He would call the exit deal, that he will have no part in drawing up a 'betrayal' and carry on regardless. Its a really fine line coz we could be on the verge of an unbelievable stitchup -In/Out being the same thing, and the Out he's talking about being such economic suicide they can't let that happen either.

Sane out is still in the EEA, (the immigration issue, would not be addressed by this however).

And "sane out" would be the ones drawing up the agreements post-Brexit...

 

[Nine Bob Note]

Like it or not he managed to get into the Mayor of London slot mostly by being bluff and amusing on shows like HIGNFY

If only Angus Deayton had fancied a night in with the missus and a mug of horlicks on that fateful evening...

 

[gosub]

And "sane out" would be the ones drawing up the agreements post-Brexit...

not necessarily. vote Leave quite heavily in with the Tory establishment, if they get designation Brexit isn't Brexit its a bit more leverage for continued membership of the EU under the associate membership that we would be having anyway. Like I said its a fine line. We'll know in 6weeks.


but yep the lunatics aren't going to be given the pen (but then vote Leave would be muttering the same thing and including the EEA/EFTA supporters in the lunatic camp)

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'll tell you something, were I Cameron and won the referendum, every one of those people would be out of the Cabinet sharpish.

Cameron, for a start, won't chuck Dunked-in Shit or Grayling out, they're the darlings of the shire associations - the folks whose donations keep the party looking like it isn't totally in the pockets of big business.
Getting rid of Gove may appeal, though. Neither Cameron nor Osborne enjoy the fact that some child of the bourgeoisie can out-think them.
Whittingdale is a different story. He's made enemies across the Tory party's political spectrum, as has Patel.

 

[ViolentPanda]

FFS! The European body which imposes checks has nothing to do with the EU, it has to with ECHR, to which we are at present a signatory. Preventing the ECHR from interfering can be done by abrogating from that particular body, it doesn't involve leaving the EU.

Yes, I do wish us to leave the ECHR, it is unconscionable that a court out-with our borders can arbitrarily strike down our legislation.

They cannot "arbitrarily" strike down "our" legislation. They have to follow a process and actually prove that the legislation they're questioning is, in fact, questionable.

Try thinking before posting, next time you have the urge.

 

[ViolentPanda]

BBC saying Johnson will give the campaign 'real charisma'. Yeah, that's what the debate needs, thanks for that insight Beeb.

Bore-is has all the charisma of a pavement pizza.

 

[DrRingDing]

You lot do realise even if the Leave vote is successful we won't be leaving Europe?

You're not slightly suspicious that 2 Bullingdon Boys leading both campaigns?

 

[DotCommunist]

You lot do realise even if the Leave vote is successful we won't be leaving Europe?

its been discussed (not on this thread, think it was an older one) that a 'leave' vote would result in we-the-people being asked again and again untill we gave the right answer

 

[ViolentPanda]

do you think george galloway will have the slightest thing to offer if there's a vote to leave?

Not unless he's offering to top himself.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They're casting him as a kind of 21st century Churchill.

Randolph Churchill when he was deep in the embrace of syphilis, maybe. Johnson is about as statesmanlike as a freshly-hatched pile of pig-turd.

 

[DrRingDing]

its been discussed (not on this thread, think it was an older one) that a 'leave' vote would result in we-the-people being asked again and again untill we gave the right answer

Boris has stated this is about getting a better deal for the UK. So, it looks like a Leave vote will just be used as leverage at the negotiating table with the EU.....rather than just upsticks and fuck off.

 

[gosub]

Boris has stated this is about getting a better deal for the UK. So, it looks like a Leave vote will just be used as leverage at the negotiating table with the EU.....rather than just upsticks and fuck off.

Who gets designated Lead campaign will affect it, but yep could well be a cynical referendum and we are trapped in a burning building with no fire exits. (as Hauge once remarked of the EUro)

 

[ViolentPanda]

Badger baiting. Flogging children.

Sodomising household pets and/or livestock.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm voting out - only cos I dislike my Spanish friend (who's better at chess and can drink more than me).

As good a reason as any.

 

[LeslieB]

You lot do realise even if the Leave vote is successful we won't be leaving Europe?

You're not slightly suspicious that 2 Bullingdon Boys leading both campaigns?

David Cameron speaking in the HoC right now is very specifically ruling out further negotiation and a second referendum in the event of a leave vote.

 

[DrRingDing]

David Cameron speaking in the HoC right now is very specifically ruling out a second referendum.

No. That is not what I mean.

 

[DrRingDing]

Read the comments above

 

[gosub]

Boris has stated this is about getting a better deal for the UK. So, it looks like a Leave vote will just be used as leverage at the negotiating table with the EU.....rather than just upsticks and fuck off.

PM has just stuffed that idea. Leave means article 50. Fuck you Elliott and Cummings.