Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[Pickman's model]

don't you work in the public sector?

Here you go
Workers at major manufacturing company agree to cut hours and pay to save jobs | Eurofound

and by sheer chance, because I wasn't searching for a company owned by a leading Outer, here they are doing it again last Novemebr

JCB staff agree to work fewer hours to save jobs

neither of those public sector

 

[newbie]

neither of those public sector

quite so. The public sector isn't immune from 'disruption of capital', far from it, but it's not at the sharp end either.

 

[Pickman's model]

don't you work in the public sector?

Here you go

and there was me thinking you meant the examples would be from the public sector

 

[newbie]

and there was me thinking you meant the examples would be from the public sector

the public sector reference was to your own comment that you personally didn't see it happening in your sectors

 

[inva]

Sorry newbie et al, it's no good, I think I'm just so utterly frustrated by the lack of a strong left response and narrative on pro-worker, pro-socialist grounds to any of this (whether that ultimately meant remain or not) when I think that the referendum especially when the Tories are at utter odds with each other with a small majority and the (even tiniest) potential for a leave derailing the present path of EU neoliberalism, that I just haven't got the patience or argument in me for it - especially the liberal privileged guff that now pervades the forum - criticising other posters on the left rather than uniting to attack capital/neoliberalism. I'm gonna take a break from here.

just wanted to say as someone who's mostly just been reading the threads on this topic instead of participating, your posts have been really good for arguing a pro working class pov.

 

[Sirena]

What publication is this!?

Dunno. It just popped up on FB.

 

[pocketscience]

A leave vote is likely to make things harder, not for certain but more than likely. A lot of jobs are involved in export, of which 40% goes to EU countries, and inward investment could dry up or go into reverse with jobs following, depending on the settlement with the EU that might eventually be reached. Neither Leave nor Remain can be certain what would happen on a Leave vote because it is uncharted territory.

You start out with two baseless statements that veer towards the project fear narrative, then say neither side can be certain what happens.
You keep on doing this.
As for the inward investment - take Airbus as an example: A flagship company of the EU project for development and integration. In the last 7-8 years they've divested half the UK sites' activities to offshoring (see GKN). Filton & Broughton are now competing against S.Korea wing manufacturers. Final Assembly Lines recently built in Alabama and 2 in Tianjin. Their helicopter maanufacturing is going to China.
New investment in the Eu in that period: Zilch! A net organic reduction in employees through retirement and as good a no new permi hires.
Similar stories with BMW, VW, AUDI, Daimler...

These companies have been investing more heavily in countries outside the Eu in the last 8 years than in, and not just the cheapo places like China. Why do you think that is? Why aren't they investing more heavily in Portugal, Greece, Spain, Italy or Ireland - helping out their needy European mates?
...and what makes you think that investment in a post EU UK is not going to happen?

 

[chilango]

just wanted to say as someone who's mostly just been reading the threads on this topic instead of participating, your posts have been really good for arguing a pro working class pov.

Agreed, stethoscope keep posting on this. It's depressing, but quite reflective of IRL, how how disempowered yet aggressive this debate is for "us".

 

[DotCommunist]

a lecture about the four horsemen.

I'd like to think I would do a lecture on the 4 with greater depth than that. You got allegory, example that sort of thing. A few lines of. Don't be snide.

 

[J Ed]

 

[weltweit]

You start out with two baseless statements that veer towards the project fear narrative, then say neither side can be certain what happens.
You keep on doing this.

Perhaps because I believe it is true.
Can you say anything about the future post an exit vote and it not be a tenuous prediction?

As for the inward investment - take Airbus as an example: A flagship company of the EU project for development and integration. In the last 7-8 years they've divested half the UK sites' activities to offshoring (see GKN). Filton & Broughton are now competing against S.Korea wing manufacturers. Final Assembly Lines recently built in Alabama and 2 in Tianjin. Their helicopter maanufacturing is going to China.
New investment in the Eu in that period: Zilch! A net organic reduction in employees through retirement and as good a no new permi hires.
Similar stories with BMW, VW, AUDI, Daimler...

I don't know much about Airbus but I expect if Airbus is now also assembling in the US and China it might have something to do with the number of customers they have there?

These companies have been investing more heavily in countries outside the Eu in the last 8 years than in, and not just the cheapo places like China. Why do you think that is? Why aren't they investing more heavily in Portugal, Greece, Spain, Italy or Ireland - helping out their needy European mates?
...and what makes you think that investment in a post EU UK is not going to happen?

I didn't say it wasn't going to happen, I said it might decline or reverse (overall I am talking), and I think that will be the case if the UK is no longer the friendly English speaking gateway to the EU. Of course that will depend, if exit win, on future negotiations.

 

[teqniq]

Airbus is just a classic example of global capital moving things where it can get them done cheapest.

 

[newbie]

I'd like to think I would do a lecture on the 4 with greater depth than that. You got allegory, example that sort of thing. A few lines of. Don't be snide.

sorry, misjudged, not intentional.

 

[Indeliblelink]

I don't think this will happen but interesting anyway
There is an incredible theory that a Brexit won't actually happen even if the public votes for it

A really crucial detail about the upcoming EU referendum has gone virtually unmentioned and it is probably themost crucial detail: Parliament doesn't actually have to bring Britain out of the EU if the public votes for it.

That is because the result of June 23 referendum on Britain's EU membership is not legally binding. Instead, it is merely advisory, and, in theory, could be totally ignored by UK government.

 

[gosub]

Perhaps because I believe it is true.
Can you say anything about the future post an exit vote and it not be a tenuous prediction?


I don't know much about Airbus but I expect if Airbus is now also assembling in the US and China it might have something to do with the number of customers they have there?


I didn't say it wasn't going to happen, I said it might decline or reverse (overall I am talking), and I think that will be the case if the UK is no longer the friendly English speaking gateway to the EU. Of course that will depend, if exit win, on future negotiations.

And yet you conceeded so many pages back it was Single market access rather than EU membership, but thats gone now and you have the undecidedes that might pop inat this point rather than be bothered to read.

Its an import duty work around other than the XS29A, but I'd say it many still on the back of pre 08 sales with some slots changing hands a few times. Not been good years for new orders in aircraft sales and the collapse of the resale market means there are some real bargins second hand.

Michael Crichton's Airframe is a good read on why you don't put aircraft manufacture in China. Boeing have plant in Germany these days too.

 

[weltweit]

And yet you conceeded so many pages back it was Single market access rather than EU membership, but thats gone now and you have the undecidedes that might pop inat this point rather than be bothered to read.

Sorry, yes single market.
The UK has been the friendly English speaking (tariff free) gateway to the European Single Market.
If that comes to an end I think it is likely to affect inward investment.

 

[The39thStep]

Great pity that fair comment comes from ukip rather than the left on Labour and Remain
'Jeremy Corbyn Is A Champagne Socialist Who Has Betrayed His Principles' Says Arron Banks In Extraordinary Rant

 

[J Ed]

I don't think this will happen but interesting anyway
There is an incredible theory that a Brexit won't actually happen even if the public votes for it

In the event of a vote for leave I think that the chances of there being a second vote are very high.

 

[Pickman's model]

the public sector reference was to your own comment that you personally didn't see it happening in your sectors

And nor do you in mine apparently

 

[Pickman's model]

In the event of a vote for leave I think that the chances of there being a second vote are very high.

What, a 'best of three' one?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

I don't think this will happen but interesting anyway
There is an incredible theory that a Brexit won't actually happen even if the public votes for it

And given the majority of MPs are pro-remain, it's hard to see how votes would be lost in Parliament.

 

[teqniq]

In the event of a vote for leave I think that the chances of there being a second vote are very high.

Yeah they'll want us to do as we're told.

 

[Pickman's model]

And given the majority of MPs are pro-remain, it's hard to see how votes would be lost in Parliament.

You have more faith in the strength of mps' spines than i

 

[8den]

What, a 'best of three' one?

Ever heard of the Nice Treaty?

 

[Libertad]

Ever heard of the Nice Treaty?

In the end it's all down to the biscuits.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ever heard of the Nice Treaty?

National institute of clinical excellence? Didn't know it was associated with a treaty

 

[teqniq]

The crux of the biscuit is in the apostrophe.

 

[Libertad]

The crux of the biscuit is in the apostrophe.

Quite, but it's not a possessive.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

You have more faith in the strength of mps' spines than i

Fair point: I guess a few MPs in marginals might think about switching their allegiance, esp if there was a strong brexit vote in their area.

(I assume results will be available on a ward by ward, or constituency by constituency basis?)

 

[Sue]

In the end it's all down to the biscuits.

And those ones are rubbish. What about a nice Bourbon or a Garibaldi?