The Reform UK Party (latest nigel farage vehicle) is it to be laughed at or not

[breadandcircuse]

What do you think I was saying there? I'll give you a hint, it's about posturing and futility. Really, you should go for that walk.

I don't need to go for a walk thanks.

It doesn't matter what the vid is about, the attacks have been for even daring to post a vid. Many were called out as shitposting without even being viewed by said posters. It's just constant moving of the goalposts. As I said, the hypocrisy from some is astounding. Anything to pick a fight.

 

[klang]

And I apologized. Immediately.

Jeez you hold a grudge.

Too little too late

 

[Rob Ray]

I don't need to go for a walk thanks.

Have a bath then. Because at the moment all you're doing here is pissing and moaning about how much everyone hates you, which is good for neither the thread nor your own wellbeing.

 

[breadandcircuse]

Have a bath then. Because at the moment all you're doing here is pissing and moaning about how much everyone hates you, which is good for neither the thread nor your own wellbeing.

Just put me on ignore. I'm sick of hearing from you with your bullshit.

 

[Rob Ray]

Just put me on ignore. I'm sick of hearing from you with your bullshit.

The button is also yours.

 

[danny la rouge]

Meant in Scotland specifically, as Farage has spent a lot of time being offensive about the country IIRC so probably need a local brand.

Well, tbf there is a constant minority of Tory voters here, a sizeable number who are offensive about the country themselves. So a ready constituency perhaps.

 

[eatmorecheese]

If I've understood correctly, the forum where a lot of the newer people have been posting is increasingly restrictive and on a right-wing trajectory, so posting a meme of Trump or Farage might be seen as transgressive over there.

I don't like seeing loads of people lumped together as "stupid", lower-status etc. A lot of us had our fill of it over the Summer (not so much on here), hearing shit politics repeatedly about the rioters being thick, jobless, working class, estate scum etc. Not to mention seeing people with intellectual disabilities being used as the butt of jokes in 2024, while many of those people are locked up and abused (plenty of examples here).

BUT I really don't think (and fucking hope not) that people doing the mocking memes here are thinking "I love ripping the piss out of people with intellectual disabilities and working class people."

Just going "BLAGGHHHHH!" at people isn't going to make people think they're in the wrong cos you've made such a great point.

Obvs, I am also new (no, not a returner, yawn).

Good post.

And honestly, I never realised you were that much of a noob. Seriously feels like you've been around for ages

 

[Dystopiary]

Good post.

And honestly, I never realised you were that much of a noob. Seriously feels like you've been around for ages

Blimey. Suppose I'll have to start calling people cunts more often then. Just coming up four years.

 

[smokedout]

I don't need to go for a walk thanks.

It doesn't matter what the vid is about, the attacks have been for even daring to post a vid. Many were called out as shitposting without even being viewed by said posters. It's just constant moving of the goalposts. As I said, the hypocrisy from some is astounding. Anything to pick a fight.

It's not really moving the goalposts. Most people will occassionally post a video or a shitty meme that made them laugh or they feel adds something or whatever. That's not really an issue. It's when someone does it all the time it becomes irritating.

 

[Ax^]

oh shit....

 

[Derek S-H]

I dunno what folks expect tbh, the most common dynamic in the world is when a bunch of new people come in at once is an uncomfortable process of adjustment and being rubbed the wrong way. That's not an agenda it's just how forums work, especially older ones with lots of people being stubborn. Back when I was a nipper people used to be told in no uncertain terms to "lurk moar" until they understood the culture.

Then doesn't that reflect more on you than them?

I mean, just how attractive and appealing is a, "Get with the programme or get out", or, "Get off my land" response?

A group can be close without being closed, it's not mandatory. Perhaps the, "reflecting", that's been mentioned so prolifically up-Thread should be carried out by practising Members? What exactly are you defending? What are you so afraid of?

It's kind of ironic that this response should appear in a Thread about Deform, because you wouldn't wish for a more myopic, fearful, jingoistic, xenophobic and deluded bunch who seem to believe that national isolation and/or homogenity is somehow good for the country. Perhaps there is a similar feeling about how people should post - their style and tone?

And it really is farcical that we have men mansplaining to a woman about what is offensive to women. We literally know nothing about the female experience directly, but yet you still seek to speak for women.

Perhaps the Politics' section has become stale and turgid and you don't even realise it as you (the collective, "you", I might add) are so embedded you don't even notice your own appalling conduct anymore.

 

[Rob Ray]

Then doesn't that reflect more on you than them?

I mean, just how attractive and appealing is a, "Get with the programme or get out", or, "Get off my land" response?

A group can be close without being closed, it's not mandatory. Perhaps the, "reflecting", that's been mentioned so prolifically up-Thread should be carried out by practising Members? What exactly are you defending? What are you so afraid of?
It's kind of ironic that this response should appear in a Thread about Deform, because you wouldn't wish for a more myopic, fearful, jingoistic, xenophobic and deluded bunch who seem to believe that national isolation and/or homogenity is somehow good for the country. Perhaps there is a similar feeling about how people should post - their style and tone?
And it really is farcical that we have men mansplaining to a woman about what is offensive to women. We literally know nothing about the female experience directly, but yet you still seek to speak for women.
Perhaps the Politics' section has become stale and turgid and you don't even realise it as you (the collective, "you", I might add) are so embedded you don't even notice your own appalling conduct anymore.

It reflects on everyone. The older hands for having limited patience, and the new people for acting with a degree of entitlement and rather than engaging with/thinking about the complaints, leaping to accusations of bullying, throwing insults etc.

I will note, in that vein, that the vitriol really isn't one way when you're wanging on about the politics board being a "myopic, fearful, jingoistic, xenophobic and deluded bunch" with "stale and turgid" content. Perhaps if you're worried about how people should post you could lead by example rather than responding in kind. Or is it everyone else who has to be warm, welcoming and accepting of whatever bullshit you happen to feel like saying?

 

[Derek S-H]

I was (and still am) and long-time Member of AV Forums.

It's a naturally conservative (with a small "c") group as they're frequently people with a good disposable income and ability to pay, so the Politics' section on there reflected that quite heavily for a number of years. It reached a nadir of awfulness and smug gloating when the Leave campaign won, despite being predicated on a pack of lies.

And then, slowly but surely, all the Right-Wingers slowly melted away into the shadows of the Internet as they realised (but would never publicly acknowledge) that they'd been had and our lives didn't massively improve overnight as had been previously claimed. They just couldn't find a way to carry on defending our lives getting worse.

And there was another jolt as Digital Spy decided to close down its Politics' section and there was a mass defection from there to AVF. The ex-DSers brought a huge rush of life and energy to a site that was full of stale old farts, and the fact that they were Liberal/Left-Wing was too much for many. Some actually left the site in protest, others just grumbled away or had simmering resentment in the background.

Many of the negative reviews here are from ex-Members and simply hilarious in their bile and vitriol:

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I happily embraced the newcomers, why wouldn't I? I know we're a territorial species driven by base needs, but I really (perhaps naively) expected more from supposedly intelligent and examining individuals on here.

And as if to prove my point about defensiveness and denial:

It reflects on everyone. The older hands for having limited patience, and the new people for acting with a degree of entitlement and rather than engaging with/thinking about the complaints, leaping to accusations of bullying, throwing insults etc.

I will note, in that vein, that the vitriol really isn't one way when you're wanging on about the politics board being a "myopic, fearful, jingoistic, xenophobic and deluded bunch" with "stale and turgid" content. Perhaps if you're worried about how people should post you could lead by example rather than responding in kind. Or is it everyone else who has to be warm, welcoming and accepting of whatever bullshit you happen to feel like saying?

Kindness is free and I rest my case.

 

[Rob Ray]

I was (and still am) and long-time Member of AV Forums.

It's a naturally conservative (with a small "c") group as they're frequently people with a good disposable income and ability to pay, so the Politics' section on there reflected that quite heavily for a number of years. It reached a nadir of awfulness and smug gloating when the Leave campaign won, despite being predicated on a pack of lies.

And then, slowly but surely, all the Right-Wingers slowly melted away into the shadows of the Internet as they realised (but would never publicly acknowledge) that they'd been had and our lives didn't massively improve overnight as had been previously claimed. They just couldn't find a way to carry on defending our lives getting worse.

And there was another jolt as Digital Spy decided to close down its Politics' section and there was a mass defection from there to AVF. The ex-DSers brought a huge rush of life and energy to a site that was full of stale old farts, and the fact that they were Liberal/Left-Wing was too much for many. Some actually left the site in protest, others just grumbled away or had simmering resentment in the background.

Many of the negative reviews here are from ex-Members and simply hilarious in their bile and vitriol:

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I happily embraced the newcomers, why wouldn't I? I know we're a territorial species driven by base needs, but I really (perhaps naively) expected more from supposedly intelligent and examining individuals.

And as if to prove my point about defensiveness and denial:



Kindness is free and I rest my case.

But you haven't been kind, in fact you've extensively badmouthed the entire board rather than consider why some people might be riled up and whether they may have a point in there somewhere.

 

[Derek S-H]

But you haven't been kind, in fact you've extensively badmouthed the entire board.

No, I've compared you to Reform (though the irony appears to be lost), have not rounded on nor namechecked any particular Member, nor have I sworn at anybody.

I have called into question the prevailing attitudes, not the conduct. If people want to treat politics as a form of bear pit or oneupmanship or point-scoring, that's up to them. But it is disappointing how dysfunctional this Board appears to be and how unquestioning and accepting the Members seem to be about it (though not all).

Just how difficult is it to be welcoming?

 

[Rob Ray]

No, I've compared you to Reform (though the irony appears to be lost), have not rounded on nor namechecked any particular Member, nor have I sworn at anybody.

I have called into question the prevailing attitudes, not the conduct. If people want to treat politics as a form of bear pit or oneupmanship or point-scoring, that's up to them. But it is disappointing how dysfunctional this Board appears to be and how unquestioning and accepting the Members seem to be about it (though not all).

And you know perfectly well that making a direct comparison to Reform is both deeply insulting to a leftie group and a huge exaggeration of the situation. So you weren't being kind, were you. It's a deliberate wind-up aimed at a specific audience. Dysfunctional this board may or may not be, but you are being a particularly egregious hypocrite here.

 

[Rob Ray]

Just how difficult is it to be welcoming?

Good question. You seem to be struggling with it.

 

[Derek S-H]

And you know perfectly well that making a direct comparison to Reform is both deeply insulting to a leftie group and a huge exaggeration of the situation. So you weren't being kind, were you. It's a deliberate wind-up aimed at a specific audience. Dysfunctional this board may or may not be, but you are being a particularly egregious hypocrite here.

Nope, I'm pointing out a clear parallel to a supposed "leftie" group and a Party that thrives on division - a very similar hostile environment is being practised by a few Members, but they don't even have the decency nor honesty to admit it.

I presume you've heard of the horseshoe effect?

 

[Rob Ray]

Yes. I also know weak bait when I see it.

 

[Derek S-H]

I've had a quick read of the Terms and rules and this caught my eye:

1. Behaviour. We're happy to host lively and robust debate but racists, bullies, sexist oafs, bigots and general all-round irritating arses are not welcome on these boards. Over the top swearing, endless personal attacks and needlessly disruptive conduct is not permitted and posters who continue such behaviour after being asked to stop will be banned. Threads that descend into personal insult-a-thons will be binned.

As neatly summed up here:

"Even more briefly: Don't act like a dick and we'll all get along fine."

Yes. I also know weak bait when I see it.

Nice deflection. Like I said, perhaps the self-examination should be closer to home.

Rounding on new Members is just so low and there are ways and means to make your point without belittling people. One of us is thinking of leaving, is this the result you want?

 

[Rob Ray]

perhaps the self-examination should be closer to home.

Perhaps it should, Derek. Perhaps it should.

Rounding on new Members is just so low and there are ways and means to make your point without belittling people. One of us is thinking of leaving, is this the result you want?

And yet you have repeatedly belittled me just in the last few posts. I wonder, at what point does "I'm new" cease to be an excuse - six months? As for one person considering leaving, I wish them all the best but am not of the opinion that the board is always better off for indulging people who do stupid shit and then throw tantrums and accusations around every time they're called out about it. One thing I like about these boards, for example, is that the mods will actively ban conspiraloons spamming dangerous nonsense. It's a solid policy which improves the discourse.

 

[Humberto]

Being against the forum seems a shit way to join the forum.

 

[smokedout]

No, I've compared you to Reform (though the irony appears to be lost), have not rounded on nor namechecked any particular Member, nor have I sworn at anybody.

I have called into question the prevailing attitudes, not the conduct. If people want to treat politics as a form of bear pit or oneupmanship or point-scoring, that's up to them. But it is disappointing how dysfunctional this Board appears to be and how unquestioning and accepting the Members seem to be about it (though not all).

Just how difficult is it to be welcoming?

If you think it's dysfunctional maybe it's not the board for you? I think most people here considered it pretty functional, I mean I'm sure we've all got criticisms but a lot of people have been here for a couple of decades.

The politics boards here have a certain culture and tbh a certain politics, with exceptions of course. It was known as an anarchist site in it's heydey after all, though it never was really. It's a place people post, usually from a more left perspective, with a tendency to a more materialist class based analysis, a dislike of liberals, a scathing view of the commentariat - whether youtube or the Guardian - and a mindful approach to language which may be misogynist, ableist or whatever.

It's never been a place of vapid memes or clickbaity videos. I value that. I like posting and reading a board mostly made up of often quite informed people, usually coming from a similar political perspective as my own. If there's a big story breaking I often come here first as sources tend to be reasonably good and misinformation or silly speculation is not really approved of. Also it's surprising how often there will be a couple of posters who happen to be very informed about an issue. As all those things it functions pretty well. Whether it functions as a welcoming space to a bunch of shouty aggressive liberals turning up with little respect for the culture of the boards is another matter.

 

[miktheword]

Then doesn't that reflect more on you than them?

I mean, just how attractive and appealing is a, "Get with the programme or get out", or, "Get off my land" response?

A group can be close without being closed, it's not mandatory. Perhaps the, "reflecting", that's been mentioned so prolifically up-Thread should be carried out by practising Members? What exactly are you defending? What are you so afraid of?

It's kind of ironic that this response should appear in a Thread about Deform, because you wouldn't wish for a more myopic, fearful, jingoistic, xenophobic and deluded bunch who seem to believe that national isolation and/or homogenity is somehow good for the country. Perhaps there is a similar feeling about how people should post - their style and tone?

And it really is farcical that we have men mansplaining to a woman about what is offensive to women. We literally know nothing about the female experience directly, but yet you still seek to speak for women.

Perhaps the Politics' section has become stale and turgid and you don't even realise it as you (the collective, "you", I might add) are so embedded you don't even notice your own appalling conduct anymore.

Fuck off. This ain't about how new you are. I don't know, and couldn't give a fuck about what forum you were on before or what group you are in now.
It don't matter how long you been here, basic rule of Urban is you chat shit , you'll get called on it.
Many of us are veterans of the so called Left, from different strains, be they ex 'rev' soc Trotskyites, anarchists, dem socs, and are trying to find a way forward from the shit show of a so called Left of the last 40 years.
Many of us are not only of the class, but live as part of the working class. I can certainly see why many are so fucked off with neo liberal centrism that they'll look to alternatives... that path has been showcased throughout Europe. And we see it happening here, clear as day, easiest prediction to make was that Starmer would slowly but surely be the midwife to right wing populism. Get rid of any left wing opposition, and try to smooth the rougher edges of neo liberalism , but only as far as capital would allow, meanwhile they have their noses in the trough.
And as part of the limited fight back we can make, aside from posting on here, 'talking on the landings' to see posters, new or old, posting shit memes about thick working class people, who can't spell, would eat their crayons, are obviously all racist, actually sets us back.

'Deform' ffs

So what's your solution? to educate the thickos? or back something that will change their material conditions?
Did you use those tactics when talking to Brexiters? How'd that go?


And I'm replying to you as a general one, it's to all of those, maybe they're newbies, I don't keep a close eye, but you now seem to have a identified yourselves as a group with maybe a liberal centrist analysis. Well if so, your analysis is shit, it sets us back, more of a hindrance than a help.
The online equivalence of the so called anti fash of the 90s, who would turn up with lollipops and their own crash barriers, ask for police protection, shout smash the fash , run at the first sign of trouble, call the working class 'scum from the estates', then wonder why you never got respect within that same working class.

To repeat
more of a hindrance than a help
It's Urban, chat shit, get called.

 

[HeAthen]

Fuck off. This ain't about how new you are. I don't know, and couldn't give a fuck about what forum you were on before or what group you are in now.
It don't matter how long you been here, basic rule of Urban is you chat shit , you'll get called on it.
Many of us are veterans of the so called Left, from different strains, be they ex 'rev' soc Trotskyites, anarchists, dem socs, and are trying to find a way forward from the shit show of a so called Left of the last 40 years.
Many of us are not only of the class, but live as part of the working class. I can certainly see why many are so fucked off with neo liberal centrism that they'll look to alternatives... that path has been showcased throughout Europe. And we see it happening here, clear as day, easiest prediction to make was that Starmer would slowly but surely be the midwife to right wing populism. Get rid of any left wing opposition, and try to smooth the rougher edges of neo liberalism , but only as far as capital would allow, meanwhile they have their noses in the trough.
And as part of the limited fight back we can make, aside from posting on here, 'talking on the landings' to see posters, new or old, posting shit memes about thick working class people, who can't spell, would eat their crayons, are obviously all racist, actually sets us back.

'Deform' ffs

So what's your solution? to educate the thickos? or back something that will change their material conditions?
Did you use those tactics when talking to Brexiters? How'd that go?


And I'm replying to you as a general one, it's to all of those, maybe they're newbies, I don't keep a close eye, but you now seem to have a identified yourselves as a group with maybe a liberal centrist analysis. Well if so, your analysis is shit, it sets us back, more of a hindrance than a help.
The online equivalence of the so called anti fash of the 90s, who would turn up with lollipops and their own crash barriers, ask for police protection, shout smash the fash , run at the first sign of trouble, call the working class 'scum from the estates', then wonder why you never got respect within that same working class.

To repeat
more of a hindrance than a help
It's Urban, chat shit, get called.

If you think we are "a group with maybe a liberal centrist analysis" then you really aren't paying attention. We are people.with wide ranging backgrounds and views who just happen to have had contact on previous forums. We may agree on some things and disagree (sometimes quite loudly) on others. You know, a bit like how society does.

All of us are comfortable with being disagreed with and engaging in robust discussion because of that. We're even happy to see our views and opinions be changed by that discussion. What we're not happy to do however is sit back and let a small number of people behave like bullying fuckers and engage in 'othering' behaviour which wouldn't seem out of place in the Daily Mail comments section. I've seen the damage people like that can do and I'll always confront them.

It is a small minority and the vast majority of the forum have been welcoming so I've no plans to go anywhere anytime soon. So, as you so eloquently started your post "Fuck off".

 

[brogdale]

If you think we are "a group with maybe a liberal centrist analysis" then you really aren't paying attention. We are people.with wide ranging backgrounds and views who just happen to have had contact on previous forums. We may agree on some things and disagree (sometimes quite loudly) on others. You know, a bit like how society does.

All of us are comfortable with being disagreed with and engaging in robust discussion because of that. We're even happy to see our views and opinions be changed by that discussion. What we're not happy to do however is sit back and let a small number of people behave like bullying fuckers and engage in 'othering' behaviour which wouldn't seem out of place in the Daily Mail comments section. I've seen the damage people like that can do and I'll always confront them.

It is a small minority and the vast majority of the forum have been welcoming so I've no plans to go anywhere anytime soon. So, as you so eloquently started your post "Fuck off".

Shit-posting, especially if it’s repetitive, will get called out; it’s that simple. The “othering” here appears to be self-inflicted when posters with previous contact on another forum ‘circle the wagons’ to defend shit-posting and interpret criticism as bullying.

When you joined I posted in support of cupid_stunt ’s welcoming stance and genuinely believe we all benefit from the ‘new blood’. I still believe that and actually hope that you can all stay and enrich our discussions; just cut the shit-posting and knee-jerk defensiveness/ group whinging and you’ll all be fine.

 

[maomao]

The arguments about a) slagging off the working-class as stupid and b) quality/type of sources have been long running themes on U75, predating any recent arrivals by a couple of decades. Look at the first couple of Trump threads for abundant examples.

 

[brogdale]

The arguments about a) slagging off the working-class as stupid and b) quality/type of sources have been long running themes on U75, predating any recent arrivals by a couple of decades. Look at the first couple of Trump threads for abundant examples.

And the various UKIP threads.

 

[Spymaster]

Shit-posting, especially if it’s repetitive, will get called out; it’s that simple. The “othering” here appears to be self-inflicted when posters with previous contact on another forum ‘circle the wagons’ to defend shit-posting and interpret criticism as bullying.

When you joined I posted in support of cupid_stunt ’s welcoming stance and genuinely believe we all benefit from the ‘new blood’. I still believe that and actually hope that you can all stay and enrich our discussions; just cut the shit-posting and knee-jerk defensiveness/ group whinging and you’ll all be fine.

What a load of bollocks. This entire latest sorry episode has been based on you, Rob Ray and a couple of others, 'shit-posting' and 'circling the wagons' in the face of having it called out.

Someone posted a crap meme which would have gone completely under the radar if it had been posted by a more established poster or one of your gang, a couple of dicks pick-up on it, and it's world war 3.

Fucking sickening. As you well know, these boards are some of the mist unwelcoming on the internet to newbs. It's been discussed for at least close to quarter of a century since I've been here, and the politics section is the nadir of its protectionist attitude towards new joiners.

 

[brogdale]

What a load of bollocks. This entire latest sorry episode has been based on you, Rob Ray and a couple of others, 'shit-posting' and 'circling the wagons' in the face of having it called out.

Someone posted a crap meme which would have gone completely under the radar if it had been posted by a more established poster or one of your gang, a couple of dicks pick-up on it, and it's world war 3.

Fucking sickening. As you well know, these boards are some of the mist unwelcoming on the internet to newbs. It's been discussed for at least close to quarter of a century since I've been here, and the politics section is the nadir of its protectionist attitude towards new joiners.

"your gang"

You're losing your touch, old boy.