The Reform UK Party (latest nigel farage vehicle) is it to be laughed at or not

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Both things can be true can't they. Urban can be pretty unwelcoming to newbies (although being a group seems to have spared them the 'banned returner' nonsense mostly as no one thinks all the banned returners have coordinated somehow) and there's been some stuff from the older posters which has gone over the line which is a shame.

There's a lot here which isn't that though. It's stuff that absolutely would get picked up on whoever posted it and absolutely does need to be ok to push back on.

 

[Spymaster]

It is a small minority and the vast majority of the forum have been welcoming so I've no plans to go anywhere anytime soon. So, as you so eloquently started your post "Fuck off".

Good for you.

As you've correctly identified, it's a small minority and yes, it's thoroughly bullying behaviour. It's been going on here for years.

Many new posters join and leave very quickly. Others stick around a bit longer but eventually leave because their cards get marked by the gang, and they get hounded away over slightly longer. It is quite specific to this section of the boards and certain posters. You guys would be getting a lot more support from other regulars except there are a vast number of U75 posters who don't come anywhere near P&P, and a substantial number who actually have this section blocked on ignore for precisely the reasons you're experiencing.

Many people here totally welcome the recent influx of new posters which has been a breath of fresh air to a section of the internet that's been festering away like a fart in a library for years.

Stand your ground

 

[krtek a houby]

Many PM's of support

 

[HeAthen]

Good for you.

As you've correctly identified, it's a small minority and yes, it's thoroughly bullying behaviour. It's been going on here for years.

Many new posters join and leave very quickly. Others stick around a bit longer but eventually leave because their cards get marked by the gang, and they get hounded away over slightly longer. It is quite specific to this section of the boards and certain posters. You guys would be getting a lot more support from other regulars except there are a vast number of U75 posters who don't come anywhere near P&P, and a substantial number who actually have this section blocked on ignore for precisely the reasons you're experiencing.

Many people here totally welcome the recent influx of new posters which has been a breath of fresh air to a section of the internet that's been festering away like a fart in a library for years.

Stand your ground

Thanks. I learnt many years ago that bullies need to be stood up to so I'm more than happy to do so. I'd rather discuss the actual threads though but won't stand by and see people being picked on.

 

[Derek S-H]

To repeat
more of a hindrance than a help
It's Urban, chat shit, get called.

I'd suggest what's more of a hindrance than a help is becoming a closed group who sets its own rules, creates a hostile environment to anyone who transgresses and is so far up itself that it has lost all sense of perspective (and humour).

And no one has addressed my point about mansplaining to a woman about being offensive to women.

As for Reform/Deform/whatever, there was a recent poster elsewhere (I know, other Forums do actually exist, even if you're not interested) who claimed to be a Reform supporter. I questioned them about it and they cut and ran without replying fully, so this is where we appear to be - they exist, they have influence, but nobody appears to admit as to why they support them.

I suppose it would be instructive and enlightening for one of them to appear on here explaining their reasoning, instead we're left to theorise amongst ourselves, which doesn't really achieve very much. Maybe they believe the spun narrative that they've been "thwarted" by the "liberal elite?"

 

[HeAthen]

Both things can be true can't they. Urban can be pretty unwelcoming to newbies (although being a group seems to have spared them the 'banned returner' nonsense mostly as no one thinks all the banned returners have coordinated somehow) and there's been some stuff from the older posters which has gone over the line which is a shame.

There's a lot here which isn't that though. It's stuff that absolutely would get picked up on whoever posted it and absolutely does need to be ok to push back on.

But it's the way it's picked up on that makes all the difference. We've seen people ask for changes in the way things are posted and that's obviously absolutely fine and has been noted by people. Then there have been the other lot (and yes, I will other the fuckers as they deserve no better from the way they've behaved).

 

[krtek a houby]

I'd suggest what's more of a hindrance than a help is becoming a closed group who sets its own rules, creates a hostile environment to anyone who transgresses and is so far up itself that it has lost all sense of perspective (and humour).

And no one has addressed my point about mansplaining to a woman about being offensive to women.

Is there humour in demonising millions of people as thick, though? Not saying that's what you're doing - genuine question.

 

[JimW]

mist unwelcoming

It's the all about the toning, y'see.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

But it's the way it's picked up on that makes all the difference. We've seen people ask for changes in the way things are posted and that's obviously absolutely fine and has been noted by people. Then there have been the other lot (and yes, I will other the fuckers as they deserve no better from the way they've behaved).

I can't agree that's been the case a lot of the time tbh. There have been perfectly reasonable posts picking up on stuff that have been met with mouthfuls of abuse in response. The frankly embarrassing response to Teuchter fact checking a claim for example - getting fact checked is annoying for sure, getting fact checked by Teuchter even more so, but it's not bullying behaviour and it's not a reasonable response to act like that.

 

[HeAthen]

I can't agree that's been the case a lot of the time tbh. There have been perfectly reasonable posts picking up on stuff that have been met with mouthfuls of abuse in response. The frankly embarrassing response to Teuchter fact checking a claim for example - getting fact checked is annoying for sure, getting fact checked by Teuchter even more so, but it's not bullying behaviour and it's not a reasonable response to act like that.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that (see, this is what reasonable discussion is all about).

 

[Derek S-H]

Is there humour in demonising millions of people as thick, though? Not saying that's what you're doing - genuine question.

I wouldn't describe pisstaking as "demonising."

I don't think Reform voters are demons, but I do think Reform, its principles and its leadership are.

In desperate times and circumstances, everyone uses humour to get themselves through it. We'll need it when an Orange lunatic returns to office next month because we don't have anything else to dull the pain and suffering.

 

[Boo Radley75]

This is a left wing forum so you'd think we'd all pretty much be of the same page on a Reform Party thread. Instead we have a handful of posters turning it into a nit picking pile on because they have a stick up their arse because a few people with different posting styles have invaded their local place for local people. Fucking embarrassing.

 

[krtek a houby]

I wouldn't describe pisstaking as "demonising."

I don't think Reform voters are demons, but I do think Reform, its principles and its leadership are.

In desperate times and circumstances, everyone uses humour to get themselves through it. We'll need it when an Orange lunatic returns to office next month because we don't have anything else to dull the pain and suffering.

In fairness, I doubt anyone here has any illusions about Reform.

But where do we draw the line at humour? For example, I used to think Frankie's Boyle was awful but he seems to have matured and mellowed over the years.

I still want to see Jimmy Carr's head on a spike, though.

 

[klang]

This is a left wing forum so you'd think we'd all pretty much be of the same page on a Reform Party thread. Instead we have a handful of posters turning it into a nit picking pile on because they have a stick up their arse because a few people with different posting styles have invaded their local place for local people. Fucking embarrassing.

Nit picking is an important part of establishing whether people are on the same page or not.

 

[Rob Ray]

This is a left wing forum so you'd think we'd all pretty much be of the same page on a Reform Party thread. Instead we have a handful of posters turning it into a nit picking pile on because they have a stick up their arse because a few people with different posting styles have invaded their local place for local people. Fucking embarrassing.

Nit picking has been done since Urban started, to absolutely everyone. If you don't want that then this really may not be the forum for you. As fir pile-ons don't think I haven't noticed the same half dozen people who joined in July all backing each other up continuously regardless of topic, whether or not the criticism is reasonable etc. There's very few complaints you lot have made that you don't also indulge in.

 

[krtek a houby]

Nit picking has been done since Urban started, to absolutely everyone. If you don't want that then this really may not be the forum for you. As fir pile-ons don't think I haven't noticed the same half dozen people who joined in July all backing each other up continuously regardless of topic, whether or not the criticism is reasonable etc. There's very few complaints you lot have made that you don't also indulge in.

In fairness, from what am seeing is two posters in particular not being able to deal with valid criticism.

Am sure in time they will mellow. Fuck knows, it took me a while to cop on but got there in the end (more or less).

There's only been one poster who arrived with a tonne of vitriol and baggage and they were quickly despatched.

Genuinely hope that all newcomers from AV will assimilate. Not in a Borg way, obviously.

 

[Ax^]

is this 7 pages about a crayon meme

jebus more silly that than the missus bun fight

 

[Spymaster]

... this really may not be the forum for you.

This snide line has come-up 3 or 4 times over the last half a dozen pages, and always from dickheads.

It's the ultimate in misplaced arrogance that presupposes that the dickhead is so fabulously established and well thought of on these boards, that they are able to give advice as to who should or should not consider contributing.

It's also a statement on behalf of others, many of whom would actually far rather see the dickhead depart, than their intended target.

 

[klang]

In fairness, from what am seeing is two posters in particular not being able to deal with valid criticism.

Am sure in time they will mellow. Fuck knows, it took me a while to cop on but got there in the end (more or less).

There's only been one poster who arrived with a tonne of vitriol and baggage and they were quickly despatched.

Genuinely hope that all newcomers from AV will assimilate. Not in a Borg way, obviously.

I feel sorry for Monte. We owe them a pile on.

 

[andysays]

This is a left wing forum so you'd think we'd all pretty much be of the same page on a Reform Party thread. Instead we have a handful of posters turning it into a nit picking pile on because they have a stick up their arse because a few people with different posting styles have invaded their local place for local people. Fucking embarrassing.

I think that to suggest that it's simply about different posting styles, as you and various others have done, is actually to miss the point.

Urban is a left wing forum, but it's one where many posters reject many of the approaches of the mainstream liberal left wing.

In particular, we reject the idea that mocking our political opponents or dismissing them as stupid (or racist or whatever) is in any way helpful or constructive. That sort of posting is, and always has been challenged here, not as a matter of style, but as a matter of political substance.

It may appear to some newcomers that they are being challenged simply for a matter of style, or even simply because they're new, but that that's because they haven't understood the political substance of the disagreement.

 

[Rob Ray]

In fairness, from what am seeing is two posters in particular not being able to deal with valid criticism.

Boo Radley, Derek, Heathen, Breadandcircuse, Skinny Ethel and Rompimpale makes six in this thread, plus Spy because he's desperate for vindication. I'm not saying they all have the same views or owt, and I understand why it's happening but they've become classic knee jerk wagon circlers.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Nit picking is an important part of establishing whether people are on the same page or not.

Nit picking has been done since Urban started, to absolutely everyone. If you don't want that then this really may not be the forum for you. As fir pile-ons don't think I haven't noticed the same half dozen people who joined in July all backing each other up continuously regardless of topic, whether or not the criticism is reasonable etc. There's very few complaints you lot have made that you don't also indulge in.

Nice try but no, you don't get rid of me as easily as that. If you had a bit of self awareness you'd notice it's other, long standing members who are tired of your shit too.
Merry Christmas and you can fully expecting lots more memes, videos and talking about people's "missus" in the New Year too. Have a good 'un!

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I still want to see Jimmy Carr's head on a spike, ththough.

So you're a fan of decapitation as a punishment for people you don't approve of?
Fascist!

 

[krtek a houby]

This snide line has come-up 3 or 4 times over the last half a dozen pages, and always from dickheads.

It's the ultimate in misplaced arrogance that presupposes that the dickhead is so fabulously established and well thought of on these boards, that they are able to give advice as to who should or should not consider contributing.

It's also a statement on behalf of others, many of whom would actually far rather see the dickhead depart, than their intended target.

Oh?

It doesn't suit everyone but folk who are easily upset should just stick to the fluffy forums.

 

[Ax^]

reform won at the ballot box because a percentage of the conservative party base could not stand the idea of voting for a brown person..

why is call the party or it leader out for being racist a no no..

farrage has always been a dog whistle blowing cunt

 

[Rob Ray]

you don't get rid of me as easily as that

This being the sort of thing I'm talking about. The weird framing as Me vs Your Attempt To Push Me Out whenever it's brought up that maybe ongoing hostility to core values of the forum you've joined doesn't make for a good fit.

I'm not trying to push you out, and will be happy enough if you stay but you're also not going to remake this forum in your own image, and the two options are either to come to a negotiated position or not. In the latter case all stubbornly continuing to sit here and argue does is upset you and everyone else.

 

[klang]

Nice try but no, you don't get rid of me as easily as that.

?
I don't want to get rid of you!

 

[krtek a houby]

Nice try but no, you don't get rid of me as easily as that. If you had a bit of self awareness you'd notice it's other, long standing members who are tired of your shit too.
Merry Christmas and you can fully expecting lots more memes, videos and talking about people's "missus" in the New Year too. Have a good 'un!

Nobody is trying to get rid of you or the other newcomers.

You post some good stuff.


But threatening more memes and similar stuff that is archaic and tiresome is a wee bit silly and missing the ethos of urban.

 

[Spymaster]

Oh?

Once again you are breaking the terms of mutual ignore here.

I have reported this post as you always do.

If no action is taken, or an apology received, I will assume that mutual ignore no longer applies between us, feel free to engage your posts, and inform our new friends all about you.

 

[klang]

But threatening more memes and similar stuff that is archaic and tiresome is a wee bit silly and missing the ethos of urban.

It's ok, as a joke, whatever really.

I do stand by my opinion though that nit picking is an important part of discussion.