The Reform UK Party (latest nigel farage vehicle) is it to be laughed at or not

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I think that to suggest that it's simply about different posting styles, as you and various others have done, is actually to miss the point.

Urban is a left wing forum, but it's one where many posters reject many of the approaches of the mainstream liberal left wing.

In particular, we reject the idea that mocking our political opponents or dismissing them as stupid (or racist or whatever) is in any way helpful or constructive. That sort of posting is, and always has been challenged here, not as a matter of style, but as a matter of political substance.

It may appear to some newcomers that they are being challenged simply for a matter of style, or even simply because they're new, but that that's because they haven't understood the political substance of the disagreement.

It's probably quite revealing of the state of the left (or however you want to describe it) that people who consider themselves left wing and politically informed often just don't know about anything left of that sort of Labour/Democrat neoliberal left.

 

[JimW]

Do agree with andysays' post just; the internet's not short of places to vent about what a shower of shit Farage and party are, but there's not so much space for a sensible discussion of if and how we might win some of those people back/round, which is the sort of thing we used to do and I would prefer we stuck to. And also agree with dismissal and mockery alone being actively counterproductive.

 

[Ax^]

It's probably quite revealing of the state of the left (or however you want to describe it) that people who consider themselves left wing and politically informed often just don't know about anything left of that sort of Labour/Democrat neoliberal left.

jebus and we cannot sneer at reform party voters

why the right wing will eventually win as the left will still be bickering whilst they march in

 

[Rob Ray]

Sneer away, but do it on the basis of them being dickheads. Reform is not a working class movement, btw, its largest contingent is AB at a whopping 36%, and 58% are junior management upwards.

https://li.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/WHOS-VOTING-REFORM-25.03.24.pdf

 

[brogdale]

Nice try but no, you don't get rid of me as easily as that. If you had a bit of self awareness you'd notice it's other, long standing members who are tired of your shit too.
Merry Christmas and you can fully expecting lots more memes, videos and talking about people's "missus" in the New Year too. Have a good 'un!

The thing that I'm finding perplexing about this whole discussion with the AV newbies is that you do represent a self-selecting cohort who cared so much about the culture of your former online community that, when faced with change, you upsticks and left for greener pastures. Fair play.

But once here, you seem not to appreciate that many here similarly care about the culture of the boards, particularly regarding the quality of discussion on the P&P forum.

In the circs, your BiB really isn't helpful, no matter how tongue-in-cheek.

 

[Ax^]

Sneer away, but do it on the basis of them being dickheads. Reform is not a working class movement, btw, its latest contingent is AB at a whopping 36%.

https://li.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/WHOS-VOTING-REFORM-25.03.24.pdf

hmm would not class them as working class they fucking Tory voters shame shower of racist cunts who voted for Brexit as it will keep the darkies and Johnny foreigner out ..

 

[Rob Ray]

They definitely are that - 86% Leave voters. Also in large part the same 30%-odd of the public who'd vote fascist tomorrow if it weren't called such.

 

[redsquirrel]

This is a left wing forum so you'd think we'd all pretty much be of the same page on a Reform Party thread.

'Left wing' spreads out over a very wide range of political views - there is a considerable difference between the politics of (revolutionary) class based socialists and liberals, and that is going to lead to very different actions.

Again I'll link to Three Way Fight, or this thread when the opposition between these different politics is something was started to be discussed What is the best way to combat a populist right victory in next GE?

 

[krtek a houby]

Boo Radley, Derek, Heathen, Breadandcircuse, Skinny Ethel and Rompimpale makes six in this thread, plus Spy because he's desperate for vindication. I'm not saying they all have the same views or owt, and I understand why it's happening but they've become classic knee jerk wagon circlers.

It's a shame that they think the right wing fibbing troll is on their side. Would rather see the himself booted out, than the newcomers. At least they have an excuse - not being aware of his shit politics and desperate need for attention.

Out of the others mentioned, have only one on ignore. Not because of any specific reasons but find it difficult to understand pissed up posting.

It's been great to have a new intake, and hopefully no heads will have to be put on spikes.

(Joke, you humourless miserables)

 

[Boo Radley75]

Some of the posters on this thread remind me of the goth kids on South Park.

 

[Rob Ray]

My guy these forums have blazing rows all the time with our without you. You've been here five months without noticing?

 

[Spymaster]

jebus and we cannot sneer at reform party voters

why the right wing will eventually win as the left will still be bickering whilst they march in

Aye, it's utter bollocks.

This whole notion that political opponents of the left are discussed rationally on these boards is dreamland. It does happen sometimes, but the general propensity is to reach for slurs and disparagement.

'Thick racists/tories/right-wingers, etc' doesn't happen?

Are you fucking kidding?

 

[Elpenor]

Nice try but no, you don't get rid of me as easily as that. If you had a bit of self awareness you'd notice it's other, long standing members who are tired of your shit too.
Merry Christmas and you can fully expecting lots more memes, videos and talking about people's "missus" in the New Year too. Have a good 'un!

Boasting about your plans to continue with your sexism is not a good look

IIRC you’ve also been offensive about PWUD and there’s been numerous ableist stuff posted up by your cabal

 

[JimW]

Aye, it's utter bollocks.

This whole notion that political opponents of the left are discussed rationally on these boards is dreamland. It does happen sometimes, but the general propensity is to reach for slurs and disparagement.

'Thick racists/tories/right-wingers, etc' doesn't happen?

Are you fucking kidding?

We spent half the Brexit thread arguing against making similar sweeping statements or if it was OK, so yes of course it's happened but also there's always been a push-back.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Boasting about your plans to continue with your sexism is not a good look

IIRC you’ve also been offensive about PWUD and there’s been numerous ableist stuff posted up by your cabal

Oh no, some random with a stick up their arse, on the internet finds the word "missus" offensive. How will the forum ever last?

 

[Spymaster]

We spent half the Brexit thread arguing against making similar sweeping statements or if it was OK, so yes of course it's happened but also there's always been a push-back.

Some people do it sometimes. It's by no means 'the way of the boards' and you'll probably find the same people that argue against it, doing it too! That's just what happens here. Saul Goodman pointed out earlier in this thread that one of the fierce critics against using the term "missus" is also one of our most prolific users of the term (guess who ).

Look at the riots in the summer. The scumbags were pretty much universally denigrated as thick, knuckle-dragging cunts, with little or no comment. The push-back only occurs when it suits certain people's agendas; in this case, having another go at a newb who seems to have got herself on the wrong side of the mob.

 

[Rob Ray]

Oh no, some random with a stick up their arse, on the internet finds the word "missus" offensive. How will the forum ever last?

And you wonder why you've faced some hostility.

 

[krtek a houby]

Oh no, some random with a stick up their arse, on the internet finds the word "missus" offensive. How will the forum ever last?

I don't agree that you're part of a cabal, but can't you understand that maybe this kinda thing is best kept for the less political threads?

It's just spoiling for a fight and not helping matters much.

 

[Poot]

Oh no, some random with a stick up their arse, on the internet finds the word "missus" offensive. How will the forum ever last?

They do care, though. Missus is a shit word. Does it help if I point out that lots of women find it demeaning?

 

[Boo Radley75]

And you wonder why you've faced some hostility.

 

[JimW]

Some people do it sometimes. It's by no means 'the way of the boards' and you'll probably find the same people that argue against it, doing it too! That's just what happens here. Saul Goodman pointed out earlier in this thread that one of the fierce critics against using the term "missus" is also one of our most prolific users of the term (guess who ).

Look at the riots in the summer. The scumbags were pretty much universally denigrated as thick, knuckle-dragging cunts, with little or no comment. The push-back only occurs when it suits certain people's agendas; in this case, having another go at a newb who seems to have got herself on the wrong side of the mob.

Not sure that's entirely true about the summer riots thread but can't be arsed to check. Think it also matters if it ends up being the bulk of what's said on a subject rather than just the odd drive-by, which you can happily let go. But in the end i would prefer a bit more serious discussion outside of the joke threads or fast-moving stuff on breaking incidents.

 

[Rob Ray]

Does it help if I point out that lots of women find it demeaning?

Unfortunately pointing that out is bullying and unwelcoming to noobs (who have been here for 5+ months).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not sure that's entirely true about the summer riots thread but can't be arsed to check. Think it also matters if it ends up being the bulk of what's said on a subject rather than just the odd drive-by, which you can happily let go. But in the end i would prefer a bit more serious discussion outside of the joke threads or fast-moving stuff on breaking incidents.

It is largely true of the rioters. Tbh it would be odd, frankly, to criticise calling race rioters racist.

But that is very different from eg calling all reform voters racist.

 

[Rob Ray]

I mean, yes, you do. You've been complaining about it for a dozen or so pages and now appear to be starting a meme tantrum about it.

 

[brogdale]

The irony of such repeated responses claiming not to care.

 

[Boo Radley75]

I don't agree that you're part of a cabal, but can't you understand that maybe this kinda thing is best kept for the less political threads?

It's just spoiling for a fight and not helping matters much.

Spoiling for a fight? The complete lack of self awareness here is astounding. Some people have made it clear that they believe spoiling for a fight is the central theme of this forum and they will spoil for a fight, whatever I post. No point giving two shits about dick heads like that. Might as well just reply with memes because frankly they don't deserve any other reply.

 

[JimW]

It is largely true of the rioters. Tbh it would be odd, frankly, to criticise calling race rioters racist.

But that is very different from eg calling all reform voters racist.

Yes, fair point, meant it wasn't just pages of us saying that though.

 

[Rob Ray]

Spoiling for a fight? The complete lack of self awareness here is astounding. [/IMG]

Of course you've been spoiling for a fight. You and others have spun out the requests of existing members to respect the existing culture of the forum into a multi-month barney casting yourselves as forever victims rather than cut back on (please note I'm not saying eliminate) posting childish memes and modify your use of language slightly. These aren't demands that you climb Everest to qualify for membership ffs.

Which given you left or half-abandoned your previous forum because the culture was changing too much is also wildly hypocritical.

 

[Spymaster]

Of course you've been spoiling for a fight. You and others have spun out the requests of existing members to respect the existing culture of the forum ...

Oh do fuck off with this bullshit.

There is no existing culture here just because you and a couple of your cronies say so.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, fair point, meant it wasn't just pages of us saying that though.

And in an attempt to drag this thread back on topic, yes of course Refuck are to be taken seriously, but the summer riots merely demonstrated the existence of a few thousand extremist racists, who we already knew existed. The counter reaction to them was orders of magnitude larger. We are not (yet) in a place where such nakedly racist sentiments have mass appeal.