The Reform UK Party (latest nigel farage vehicle) is it to be laughed at or not

[beesonthewhatnow]

Meanwhile...on "X" it seems that the proprietor has waded into the Badenoch/Farage spat over the refUKers' membership 'ticker' and put a community warning on Badenoch's post telling readers her "claim is false". No link, obvs.

View attachment 457137

Community notes are added by site users, and that one has a link to a source. Her claim is false, she’s had her arse handed to her on a plate over this.

 

[Rob Ray]

You've obviously failed to read the civilised discussion above with lots of people disagreeing with nary a dig between them.

Too busy trying to hide his embarrassment behind meaningless sneering. Nothing much lost if that's the best he can manage, afaic.

 

[JimW]

Revealed: Trump ground game in key states flagged as potentially fake

Data suggests canvassers linked to Elon Musk’s America Pac falsely claimed to have visited homes of potential voters

www.theguardian.com

The suggestion (pre-election) was that paid Trump canvassers were faking door knocks in Arizona and Nevada, and not actually speaking to as many people as they were recording. The implication being that paid canvassers are not as invested in a party's prospects as actual members.

It all became a bit moot after the election, as Trump won both states.

Yep, that was the gist of it. Don't think i read it in Guardian initially; as you say, moot as regards US but not a great track record to bring to UK either.

 

[brogdale]

Yawn.

I have definitely lost interest in both this Thread and this part of the site, mostly because it is full of humourless, intolerant, self-important windbags and life's too short to subject yourself to that - that's what Nige and the Tories are for.

Thankfully, the rest of the site is far more enjoyable, entertaining, insightful and supportive whereby posters are far less territorial and are happy to agree to disagree.

I wish both you and everyone else well as you continue to talk hot air and nothing changes, mostly because it's just a tiny corner of the Internet and nobody really cares.

You had your arse handed to you for that classist shite that you posted, so now you're thread flouncing; hilarious.

 

[Spymaster]

Yep, that was the gist of it. Don't think i read it in Guardian initially; as you say, moot as regards US but not a great track record to bring to UK either.

Perhaps; although I'm not sure there's much of a track record there, other than Trump won in at least two states where they paid people to canvas for him.

I think it's obvious that paying people to deliver a message will be less effective than using people who are committed to the message. Many of us would have done leaflet rounds as kids and posted 5 through each door, or just binned hundreds of them. The message still gets through to enough people to make it worthwhile though. Campaigning is very effective but very expensive, and that's surely what a lot Musk's money will be used for. There's certainly an interesting few years coming up.

 

[danny la rouge]

Perhaps; although I'm not sure there's much of a track record there, other than Trump won in at least two states where they paid people to canvas for him.

I think it's obvious that paying people to deliver a message will be less effective than using people who are committed to the message. Many of us would have done leaflet rounds as kids and posted 5 through each door, or just binned hundreds of them. The message still gets through to enough people to make it worthwhile though. Campaigning is very effective but very expensive, and that's surely what a lot Musk's money will be used for. There's certainly an interesting few years coming up.

I’m interested in this effective doorstep campaigning. Do parties do that? I thought they basically just asked people how they intended to vote, to identify supporters. Supporters will be reminded to vote on the day (“getting the vote out”), people who are against or noncommittal will be left alone.

I’ve never come across attempted doorstep persuasion, except in setups for the benefit of news camera crews.

 

[Spymaster]

I thought they basically just asked people how they intended to vote, to identify supporters. Supporters will be reminded to vote on the day (“getting the vote out”), people who are against or noncommittal will be left alone.

I’ve never come across attempted doorstep persuasion ...

I'm surprised you haven't. In fact, I'd have half expected you to be a veteran door-knocker Pilch.

Here's some Labour Party thinking on it:

Why we knock on doors.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm surprised you haven't. In fact, I'd have half expected you to be a veteran door-knocker Pilch.

Yeah, I think you may be misunderstanding the type of politics I get involved in.

Here's some Labour Party thinking on it:

Why we knock on doors.

Hmm. Never experienced that firsthand, and certainly not outside of election time (as they claim). I’d be very surprised if Labour had any activists other than candidates and election agents in my area.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

i had a lib dem person call a couple of times before the recent election (sort of 'blue wall' seat that the LDs were targeting, and won)

think most parties put effort in to seats they hope to win / are trying to defend. I didn't get others on the doorstep

 

[cupid_stunt]

Yeah, I think you may be misunderstanding the type of politics I get involved in.

Hmm. Never experienced that firsthand, and certainly not outside of election time (as they claim). I’d be very surprised if Labour had any activists other than candidates and election agents in my area.

Labour has been doing loads of D-2-D canvassing all year round, for a few years, in Worthing, resulting in them going from their first ever seat on the borough council, to taking over all control in just 4 or 5 years, and taking half the towns County Council seats, having never held any before, to finally taking both the seats in the GE, again having never held either of them before.

I moved from town into a village just over a year again, they landed about 30-40 supporters here on one day, with the intention of knocking all 2,500 doors, the canvasser that knocked on my door showed me a photo of them all meeting on the village green, before attacking!

I've never witnessed anything like it before, most impressive TBH.

 

[chilango]

I’m interested in this effective doorstep campaigning. Do parties do that? I thought they basically just asked people how they intended to vote, to identify supporters. Supporters will be reminded to vote on the day (“getting the vote out”), people who are against or noncommittal will be left alone.

I’ve never come across attempted doorstep persuasion, except in setups for the benefit of news camera crews.

TBF every now and then - particularly, but not exclusively, during tight local election races - both the Greens and Labour doorknock my street to speak to us. And they appear to knock every door when doing so. They don't hang around too long arguing, but do attempt to persuade waverers.

 

[Spymaster]

Hmm. Never experienced that firsthand, and certainly not outside of election time (as they claim). I’d be very surprised if Labour had any activists other than candidates and election agents in my area.

Obviously they're mostly active during election run-ups, and mainly in areas where they think they have a chance of winning. It'd be a brave Tory candidate who knocked on your door!

I think this is what Reform will try to change though. The type of political engagement that we're used to.

Look at what you have there in Farage, Musk, Candy etc. Some extremely highly motivated, incredibly business/marketing astute, and extraordinarily wealthy people; looking to engage people who feel disenfranchised in many ways and have zero serious alternatives to get behind.

If Reform was a listed business at the moment, investors would be piling into their shares.

 

[brogdale]

Labour has been doing loads of D-2-D canvassing all year round, for a few years, in Worthing, resulting in them going from their first ever seat on the borough council, to taking over all control in just 4 or 5 years, and taking half the towns County Council seats, having never held any before, to finally taking both the seats in the GE, again having never held either of them before.

I moved from town into a village just over a year again, they landed about 30-40 supporters here on one day, with the intention of knocking all 2,500 doors, the canvasser that knocked on my door showed me a photo of them all meeting on the village green, before attacking!

I've never seen anything like it before, most impressive TBH.

Yep, it's really not rocket science; it's plenty of willing boots on the ground to do the drudgery of D-2-D knocking. Mind you, outside of safe, well established seats, that effort still needs to be pushing at an open door of national political sentiment to effect swings capable of winning seats.

 

[brogdale]

The GL & RoSEland view of that MiC MRP shows the refUKers holding & gaining in Essex/Thames "gateway" and the small-boats coast. btw, I've sometimes had the misfortune to see the local news down there in Kent; I'm always shocked at how much reporting there is of the small boat arrivals.

 

[Funky_monks]

Deform will struggle in affluent areas, as by the nature of that affluence, there is less for Deform to appeal to. Plus their membership is not politically active (nor are they allowed to be so), they are not the sort who will go knocking on doors or delivering leaflets, which is essential if they want to sway the votes.

This doesn't hold with my experience of the toriest of tories, the farmers/landowners.
Loads voted reform last time. I know of at least two who have left the tory membership to join reform.

 

[Elpenor]

The GL & RoSEland view of that MiC MRP shows the refUKers holding & gaining in Essex/Thames "gateway" and the small-boats coast. btw, I've sometimes had the misfortune to see the local news down there in Kent; I'm always shocked at how much reporting there is of the small boat arrivals.

View attachment 457152

Folkestone and Hythe going reform - this seat includes Dungeness

 

[brogdale]

Folkestone and Hythe going reform - this seat includes Dungeness

Yep, but interesting to see that, even at this high-water polling point for the rerUKers, their ability to impact electorally in the SE is pretty much limited to Essex and the periphery of the East Kent coast.

 

[8ball]

I’ve never come across attempted doorstep persuasion, except in setups for the benefit of news camera crews.

I’m in a marginal seat and there was a strong attempt at this from the local Labour party at Corbyn’s last go.
I know a couple of the canvassers.

 

[8ball]

If Reform was a listed business at the moment, investors would be piling into their shares.

I think they’d need a better plan for gathering revenue than just rinsing a gullible billionaire.

 

[brogdale]

I think they’d need a better plan for gathering revenue than just rinsing a gullible billionaire.

tbh, at £25 a pop (I think?) the soaring membership must be raising a fair amount for Farage's company?

 

[cupid_stunt]

I think they’d need a better plan for gathering revenue than just rinsing a gullible billionaire.

They have started well with membership now at 150k x £25, that's £3.75m right there.

 

[Spymaster]

I think they’d need a better plan for gathering revenue than just rinsing a gullible billionaire.

I don't. Not when the gullible billionaire can happily chuck them a billion quid a year for the next 400 years if he wanted too, and still have plenty of change at the end.

 

[The39thStep]

Perhaps there are regional exceptions but I'm a bit sceptical of the idea that Labour has plenty of willing volunteers/boots on the ground. My friends and family all said that there were very few in the last GE , compared to previous elections, and in some places across Greater Manchester they were outnumbered by both Greens and Workers Party. The Labour vote of course declined. They had to send canvassers from London to the North East to support Luke Akehurst and they diverted all canvassers from Clacton , when they ran away from Reform, to other areas.

In recent Council by-elections Labour have failed to get their vote out even in seats they were defending. Overall their membership has collapsed and there is no reason why this trend won't continue. Yes they can be 'smart' in terms of targets, messaging and better use of dwindling resources but lets face it even the onetruepath Stamerites find less and less enthusiasm and if the door ever opens on the door step they are confronted with the fact that voters have even less.

However, Labour does have a role model for Stakhanov door knocking for its faithful to aspire to.

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1735471262211.mp4

 

[brogdale]

Perhaps there are regional exceptions but I'm a bit sceptical of the idea that Labour has plenty of willing volunteers/boots on the ground. My friends and family all said that there were very few in the last GE , compared to previous elections, and in some places across Greater Manchester they were outnumbered by both Greens and Workers Party. The Labour vote of course declined. They had to send canvassers from London to the North East to support Luke Akehurst and they diverted all canvassers from Clacton , when they ran away from Reform, to other areas.

In recent Council by-elections Labour have failed to get their vote out even in seats they were defending. Overall their membership has collapsed and there is no reason why this trend won't continue. Yes they can be 'smart' in terms of targets, messaging and better use of dwindling resources but lets face it even the onetruepath Stamerites find less and less enthusiasm and if the door ever opens on the door step they are confronted with the fact that voters have even less.

However, Labour does have a role model for Stakhanov door knocking for its faithful to aspire to.

View attachment 457156

Yes, my local LP contacts talk of the qualitative decline in activists as well as the quantitive. They say that most of the relatively younger and more energised Corbyn-era door-knockers have given up and left, leaving the ageing Blairites running the CLPs and that most of those are not prepared to sully their neoliberal hands going round knocking doors of the estates.

 

[8ball]

They have started well with membership now at 150k x £25, that's £3.75m right there.

Think the billionaire plan was better tbf. Though they’ll want to find a stable one.

 

[Lotte]

Seeing the leader of the opposition getting into Twitter spats is so incredibly cringe.

 

[brogdale]

Seeing the leader of the opposition getting into Twitter spats is so incredibly cringe.

She fell into Farage's trap so easily; so naive.

 

[Lotte]

A better or more dignified politician would ignore Farage IMO.

 

[brogdale]

A better or more dignified politician would ignore Farage IMO.

They've picked a complete dud, there.

 

[xenon]

I’ve only ever had one campaigner knock on the door anywhere I’ve lived. And that was Malcolm Wicks in 1997. i’ve been living in a safe labour seat for quite awhile now so I guess they just don’t bother.