The Lefts reaction to hurricane Katrina

[ViolentPanda]

I dont disagree with their politics, I just dont like the way they are applied to some and not others

It's the human condition. people are partial/partisan/play favourites. get used to it or live a life of existential angst and rage.

Do you think your good buddies on the right don't do exactly the same thing? If that's what you do think then you're both naive and gullible.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Thanks. As I have said its not that the posters here like the US people and hate the US government, They are indifferent to the US people and hate their government.

But luckily a bitter minority.

And one I might add in many casaes is to dumb to vote.

Better than being too dumb to spell simple words correctly, you poor excuse for a free market apologist.

 

[CyberRose]

It's the human condition. people are partial/partisan/play favourites. get used to it or live a life of existential angst and rage.

Do you think your good buddies on the right don't do exactly the same thing? If that's what you do think then you're both naive and gullible.

My "good buddies on the right"?

Whatever, I know full well they do exactly the same.

 

[rocketman]

My "good buddies on the right"?
Whatever, I know full well they do exactly the same.

Oh dear.
Yes, CyberR, they do, and in this case the right wing in America has attempted to collude over what appears to many to be a criminal neglect of its citizens.
But even the right is utterly appalled, in many cases.
It's a shameful thing to leave people to die when you are able to help.
It's a defining moment of the Bush presidency.
I condemn it.
It also means people in America today are more prepared than before to consider new arguments and strategies to ensure the social compact of America can be revitalised, as this must never happen again.
All life is precious.

 

[CyberRose]

Oh dear.
Yes, CyberR, they do,

Exactly what I said above...

 

[pilchardman]

I'm surprised people are still responding to this troll. He lied. He knows he lied. We know he lied. If he wanted a real debate he'd go to one of the threads he says don't exist. But he can't, because that'd show he knows he's lying.

Don't feed the troll.

 

[audiotech]

And I didn't know you boys were so smart as well.

Delivering supplies to a flooded city when thousands of people are stranded, surrounded by water. Unable to drive motor vehicles to them or unable to find ground to land helicopters.

What about using all those military landing craft you invade countries with.

 

[rocketman]

I'm surprised people are still responding to this troll. He lied. He knows he lied. We know he lied. If he wanted a real debate he'd go to one of the threads he says don't exist. But he can't, because that'd show he knows he's lying.

Don't feed the troll.

To an extent I agree, except there is some good stuff in this thread, and if we leave the Troll in control of it, well. We can't.

He's lied like his government does. And his spineless president won't even visit New Orleans. Cowardice and lickspittle rule his kind.

 

[CyberRose]

I'm surprised people are still responding to this troll. He lied. He knows he lied. We know he lied. If he wanted a real debate he'd go to one of the threads he says don't exist. But he can't, because that'd show he knows he's lying.

Don't feed the troll.

I fail to see how I have lied? I have an opinion and I stated it. Unless you know more about my opinions than I do then your in no position to call me a liar...

 

[Barking_Mad]

To be perfectly honest I think mears has a point. There were no threads in World Politics about the hurricane for about two days after it hit, yet on another forum the thread on the hurricane was already on it's 6th page before it hit. The first thread was saying "what goes around comes around" (ie using the hurricane to have a go about the Iraq war) another thread asked "what can we learn about the social breakdown in NOLA" (ie using the hurricane to have a go at the capitalist system) and the other thread was asking "will the hurricane bring Bush down" (ie did you have more wanks over 9/11 or Katrina?) Where was the general thread saying how terrible this tragedy was like the thread about the stampede in Iraq recently? The impression is that people on this forum care more about using the hurricane to pursue their own anti-x agenda than they do about expressing sadness for the Americans who have suffered. Its as if the left care more about Iraqis than they do about Americans and this is a trend we see everywhere. The left always have to take sides. They care more about Palestinians than they care about Israelis. They care more about Iraqis than they care about the British. They care more about Catholics than they care about Protestants. If that is not true (which I assume you will all inform me it isn't) then that is certainly the impression that is created. It's why the left get called hypocrites and its why they get no public support. Their principles only apply to their 'chosen ones' and in this case their principles only apply to Americans as a secondary priority after using this tragedy to have a pop at America

And I know this post will provoke numerous replies labelling me a "cunt" etc but to be honest I'm passed caring. Its a trait of the left to deal with any criticism by throwing insults rather than address the concern so I expect it.

Nice set of generalisations you made there.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm sorry, but I invite anyone on these boards to take a closer look at the New Orleans threads in the general and the politics sections.

You will see plenty of expressions of sympathy. You will also see plenty of concern.

You will also see that debate on issues raised by the disaster - such as Bush's inaction - does not begin until Wednesday, when people here - just like everyone else across the planet - were shocked at the way those poor people had been left abandoned.

I'm not about to degenerate this conversation by calling you anything abusive. I'll just leave it to say your argument is a selective one, and as such it just is not true.

And to be honest if the best argument the US gov apologists can now come up with is to slag people here off for not caring simply because we dare debate the issues, then I suggest that you are clutching at straws, and have finally reached the end of your arguments.

We debate because we do care. And we were shocked at the American government's failure to get involved until world opinion had become so furious.

I'm ever so disappointed in some of the arguments presented by US gov apologists. It really upsets me that on such a non-partisan disaster people can spew such rot.

This was a chronic failure of the American people on the part of federal and government-level forces.

And whether right, left or centre on a very human level it's unacceptable to refuse to face up to and to deal with the issues raised.

Well said.

 

[Jo/Joe]

Its a trait of the left to deal with any criticism by throwing insults rather than address the concern so I expect it.

Concerns relating to the hurricane aren't being dealt with? Go find a right wing forum pulling the issues apart with such depth. They'll all be in denial.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Thanks. As I have said its not that the posters here like the US people and hate the US government, They are indifferent to the US people and hate their government.

But luckily a bitter minority.

And one I might add in many casaes is to dumb to vote.

I like your country and people, and I was willing to give this admin the benefit of the doubt, and breathing space, because of 911.

This fuckup returns me to my estimation of Bush and co, pre 911: this administration is inept and/or dangerous, and should be expunged as soon as possible for the good of the american public.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yesterday, I watched Condi carrying a box onto the back of a pickup truck, and Rumsfeld marching around in his nicely pressed blue shirt. It made my gorge rise.

 

[JoMo1953]

CyberRose I'm really lost trying to figure out what you are saying.......

Might I suggest you do a search of Bernie Gunther's & Rocketman's (for starters) posts and read what both have said, they strike me as intelligent reasonable people who forgo the mud slinging, trash talking that seems to creep in from so many other posters. Then come back and tell me and all the other people of U75 if your post makes any sense.

 

[rocketman]

I fail to see how I have lied? I have an opinion and I stated it. Unless you know more about my opinions than I do then your in no position to call me a liar...

He wasn't talking about you. I've a feeling/hope we almost have a dialogue. Sure, we have different opinoins in some ways, but we have dialogue. That's critical.

 

[pilchardman]

I fail to see how I have lied? I have an opinion and I stated it. Unless you know more about my opinions than I do then your in no position to call me a liar...

I care not one jot about your opinions. You may or may not be a liar. I made no comment on it.

I'm talking about Mears. He lied and he knows he lied. And it was a stupid fucking lie into the bargain.

There are other threads to discuss the issues on.

 

[Jo/Joe]

Where did I see that quote from Rumsfield describing looting in Iraq as the release of pent up frustration?

 

[oi2002]

...I thought the French were fucked up when thousands of old people died during their heat wave, and I think the US govt is fucked up when tens of thousands of people die sitting around for a week in 100 degree heat, waiting for help.

Excellent comparison. Now you have a point there. How did U75 react? I don't recall much more than a faux gaelic shrug.

I'll just throw one little thought into the mix here. I'm an Ulster Protestant and therefore have less compassionate instincts than the average Dalek but doesn't Mears have a point here.

The US suffers a vast natural disaster and all of sandle wearing bunny cuddeling U75 explodes not with compassion but with gleeful denouncements of the US. It's not that much different from US fundagelicals and AK47 loving Salafis celebrating that the righteous arm of the Lord has punished sinful New Orleans for its profane, carnal, hedonism.

Now I think despite (and because of) the heaps of corpses it's a ciivic duty to declare open season on Dubya's worthless administration; any Yank that doesn't is a traitor to the republic and their fellow Americans but I can see how Yanks could be offended.

Dashed unsporting afterall. Tricky blighter johnny lefty.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Excellent comparison. Now you have a point there. How did U75 react? I don't recall much more than a faux gaelic shrug.

I'll just throw one little thought into the mix here. I'm an Ulster Protestant and therefore have less compassionate instincts than the average Dalek but doesn't Mears have a point here.

The US suffers a vast natural disaster and all of sandle wearing bunny cuddeling U75 explodes not with compassion but with gleeful denouncements of the US. It's not that much different from US fundagelicals and AK47 loving Salafis celebrating that the righteous arm of the Lord has punished sinful New Orleans for its profane, carnal, hedonism.

Now I think despite (and because of) the heaps of corpses it's a ciivic duty to declare open season on Dubya's worthless administration; any Yank that doesn't is a traitor to the republic and their fellow Americans but I can see how Yanks could be offended.

Dashed unsporting afterall. Tricky blighter johnny lefty.

I agree that there are posters on U75 who will take potshots at the US whatever chance they get.

But like they say, even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day.

 

[revol68]

Excellent comparison. Now you have a point there. How did U75 react? I don't recall much more than a faux gaelic shrug.

I'll just throw one little thought into the mix here. I'm an Ulster Protestant and therefore have less compassionate instincts than the average Dalek but doesn't Mears have a point here.

The US suffers a vast natural disaster and all of sandle wearing bunny cuddeling U75 explodes not with compassion but with gleeful denouncements of the US. It's not that much different from US fundagelicals and AK47 loving Salafis celebrating that the righteous arm of the Lord has punished sinful New Orleans for its profane, carnal, hedonism.

Now I think despite (and because of) the heaps of corpses it's a ciivic duty to declare open season on Dubya's worthless administration; any Yank that doesn't is a traitor to the republic and their fellow Americans but I can see how Yanks could be offended.

Dashed unsporting afterall. Tricky blighter johnny lefty.

As my ma likes to tell my Da prods don't have hearts just swinging bricks (she's a catholic and he's a prod btw)

There are some gobshites on Urban who post up retarded knee jerk anti american posts and some have done so in relation to the Hurricane. But i think those with serious politics and serious criticisms of the the US state don't sink to such reactionary outbursts.

I also think many people weren't aware of what a mess it all was until around tuesday, most of us assumed it would all be sorted in a couple of days. But alas we all stood back gob smacked that the government seemed more interested in appearing tough on "looters" than getting aid into New Orleans. we later find out that stopping aid going in was deliberate federal policy (check the Redcross website faq for the proof).

Why was the governors first response to send in brutalised troops that served in Fullujah "locked and loaded"? Why the fuck weren't they sending in relief workers "locked and loaded" with water, food and medicine. The fact the US state can only percieve thinks in terms of Crime and Punishment might have a huge part to play.

 

[rocketman]

I object to being triviaised like this. Like many on the boards I refused to get drawn into the political discussion until later in the event cycle. But the truth remains that people died, and the thing is I was in the chatter when the event began, and the overwhelming feeling from all here then who posted was of sympathy and compasion for the poor souls.
This relatively recent thread isn't the place to findf that reaction, and it's title defines it as a right v left thread. So don't judge compassion in here.

On this I agree

Now I think despite (and because of) the heaps of corpses it's a ciivic duty to declare open season on Dubya's worthless administration; any Yank that doesn't is a traitor to the republic and their fellow Americans but I can see how Yanks could be offended.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Excellent comparison. <snip>

For me there are special qualities to this incident that set it apart.

Firstly, as you're probably aware, I take a special interest in environmental issues. Next time you hear someone saying that the free market will solve an environmental problem. I suggest reminding them of those poor people left to fucking die in New Orleans because they didn't have a valid credit card. That's what the free market solving environmental problems looks like. I don't think you can say "this happened due to global warming" except in a strictly probabilistic sense, but I do think it's very safe to say we'll be seeing some more of these catastrophic events befalling coastal cities. That is predictable with a very high degree of confidence. So what the country which presumes itself defacto ruler of the world does about one of these events on its own soil is really quite important. It's a model that we'll see revised and repeated.

Secondly, it's a demonstration of what the market fundamentalism means to humans in states that adopt it. It means that you get left to die if you don't have a valid credit card, unless your death embarasses someone who counts.

Socialism or Barbarism

 

[mears]

I think there will be a reckoning in your country over this. I think that the people of the US will come to believe that the republican vision of the future was unable to see the poor in Louisiana, and I think the republicans will be punished.

There are many democrats in Louisiana, including the mayor of New Orleans.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

There are many democrats in Louisiana, including the mayor of New Orleans.

They aren't the ones who dragged their feet on getting the relief effort underway.

 

[mears]

I like your country and people, and I was willing to give this admin the benefit of the doubt, and breathing space, because of 911.

This fuckup returns me to my estimation of Bush and co, pre 911: this administration is inept and/or dangerous, and should be expunged as soon as possible for the good of the american public.

And the same for local democratic officials in the affected areas?

 

[mears]

They aren't the ones who dragged their feet on getting the relief effort underway.

No, New Orleans just sent them all to the Superdome.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

And the same for local democratic officials in the affected areas?

It's just that Bush and co are running the country right now.

But if there are democrats who had decision making authority who were negligent in the pursuit of their duties, the same thing applies.

I'm not american: I don't give a shit from democrat or republican. If this had happened under Clinton's administration, I'd be saying the same thing.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No, New Orleans just sent them all to the Superdome.

They had 24 hours, and about 100,000 poor people to deal with. Also, who would have expected that the survivors would have to wait a week to see the first signs of outside relief?

Up till now at least, I'd bet that in figuring worst case scenarios, the various mayors never counted on a failure of federal or state officials to go balls to the wall in providing relief.

 

[rocketman]

It's just that Bush and co are running the country right now.

But if there are democrats who had decision making authority who were negligent in the pursuit of their duties, the same thing applies.

I'm not american: I don't give a shit from democrat or republican. If this had happened under Clinton's administration, I'd be saying the same thing.

Johnny. We alreay know these Bush.shi**ers for what they are. They are putting twice as much effort into the real Louisiana relief effort - you know the one - the one where they pin the blame on the opposition for a failure Republicans orchestrated by controlling FEMA.

The money they spend on that will dwarf what they spent saving lives last Wednesday.