The Key to the England Puzzle

[Crazy_diamond]

I did see the interview and create thread on that subject. The English FA are a joke, that is universally acknowledged. Though Scolari came across as a man of priniciple, he oozes warmth and theres a certain humanity behind his words and the way he conducts himself. An all round decent man.

And while I'm not a fan of foreign managers for national teams (as the team is everyone not just the 11 players on the pitch) I think he would have added something to the whole game in this country, but yet again personal politics’ has decided the future of English football for the next few years.

 

[Balbi]

....and when Lampard finally gets pulled off, preferably for Carrick to come on....

*snigger*

 

[Obnoxiousness]

I think it's not the players who need looking at.

 

[Gmart]

How badly does he have to play to be taken off?

Is his father on the staff or something?

 

[magneze]

How badly does he have to play to be taken off?

Is his father on the staff or something?

That's what I was wondering. Downing on for Gerrard?!

What if there'd been an equalizer ... who'd you rather have on the pitch for extra time?

 

[ZAMB]

How badly does he have to play to be taken off?

Is his father on the staff or something?

How many good chances did Lampard miss that time? Who will rid me of this turbulent beast?

 

[tommers]

not only how many chances did he miss, but how many times did he give the ball away?

even I'm getting bored now of slagging him off. it's too easy....

 

[Genghis Cohen]

What if there'd been an equalizer ... who'd you rather have on the pitch for extra time?

Exactly what I thought at the time.

 

[muser]

And while I'm not a fan of foreign managers for national teams (as the team is everyone not just the 11 players on the pitch) I think he would have added something to the whole game in this country, but yet again personal politics’ has decided the future of English football for the next few years.

I disagree here. Nationality is becoming a grey area, and one that can be overcome quite easily. Deco being a perfect example. Everyone seems to forget that English football was in such a state when Eriksson arrived, that despite not being wholy welcomed by all supporters, there seemed to be a willingness to give him a honeymoon period. McClaren is a competent manager, but the problem facing England is bigger than any one man.

 

[Genghis Cohen]

not only how many chances did he miss, but how many times did he give the ball away?

even I'm getting bored now of slagging him off. it's too easy....

Aye, it was a laugh to begin with, its just sad now, its obvious he'll never be dropped no matter how big of a selfish wasteful twat he is (though he did start passing today, well on occasion,) if he werent such a cheating cunt I'd be inclined to feel sorry for him, he's obviously well out of his depth, puts me in mind of high level WoW players who have paid through the nose to be power levelled and quite obviously havent a fucking clue what they're doing; he's been surrounded by expensive players who make him look better than he is and thanks to kenyon's 'relations' with that twat harry harris and probably others in the media, he's lauded no matter what.

He'll score at some point, probably a winner, the same way beckham did; law of averages, and the slate will doubtless be wiped clean.

 

[tommers]

He'll score at some point, probably a winner, the same way beckham did; law of averages, and the slate will doubtless be wiped clean.

that's the thing isn't it? he scores a goal and everyone starts going on about how he's one of the best midfielders in the premiership (and indeed apparently the second best player in the world.)

what people who just read the papers don't realise is that the rest of his game is distinctly average. always has been.

and he's been out of form for about a year.

carrick played really well today. lampard played shit (again.) if we went back to 4-4-2 who do you think would be dropped?

 

[Triggy]

Why is everybody getting so uptight about the whole thing? Everywhere you look/hear, people are slagging off Sven and moaning about pisspoor Engand form.

Wake up and smell the coffee FFS, this IS how we play.

Please no more about 'World Class' England players. Rooney, yes. Gerrard in flashes, yes. Everybody else forget it. Good, maybe. Consistent, No. World class, absolutely not. Jesus Christ, we have not under-achieved at all - we've just done what we always do.

Compare our team against Germany, Holland, Spain, Mexico...get the picture? Oh, I forgot Brazil and Argentina. We arenot in the same league, period.

If anybody believes that we are in the same league as Argentina, please kindly explain how and why. I would be intrigued.

Compare Germany's central midfield pairing and their understanding of who goes forward and who goes back, with the primary school rigidity of the England midfield who cannot adapt to the flow of play mid-game. Jesus, we bang the ball up, route 1 and hope that Rooney is on the end of it, end of.

The stats will show that Sven is probably one of, if not the most successful England coaches, and has probably made the best out of (on a WORLD scale) a collection of above-average to good players.

To read the papers, you'd think that we are all frankly dismayed that FIFA haven't just given us the trophy. But that is England all over, and probably explains why we can't count on our fellow Brits for support.

I'm an England fan, but let's get realistic - we're second tier and even with Deco and Costinha out in the QF, we will be struggling from the off.

Why not just live with the fact that we are deserved underdogs and try and enjoy the game. It might save the old blood pressure, as well as the denial.

 

[tangerinedream]

Why is everybody getting so uptight about the whole thing? Everywhere you look/hear, people are slagging off Sven and moaning about pisspoor Engand form.

Wake up and smell the coffee FFS, this IS how we play.

Please no more about 'World Class' England players. Rooney, yes. Gerrard in flashes, yes. Everybody else forget it. Good, maybe. Consistent, No. World class, absolutely not. Jesus Christ, we have not under-achieved at all - we've just done what we always do.

Compare our team against Germany, Holland, Spain, Mexico...get the picture? Oh, I forgot Brazil and Argentina. We arenot in the same league, period.

If anybody believes that we are in the same league as Argentina, please kindly explain how and why. I would be intrigued.

Compare Germany's central midfield pairing and their understanding of who goes forward and who goes back, with the primary school rigidity of the England midfield who cannot adapt to the flow of play mid-game. Jesus, we bang the ball up, route 1 and hope that Rooney is on the end of it, end of.

The stats will show that Sven is probably one of, if not the most successful England coaches, and has probably made the best out of (on a WORLD scale) a collection of above-average to good players.

To read the papers, you'd think that we are all frankly dismayed that FIFA haven't just given us the trophy. But that is England all over, and probably explains why we can't count on our fellow Brits for support.

I'm an England fan, but let's get realistic - we're second tier and even with Deco and Costinha out in the QF, we will be struggling from the off.

Why not just live with the fact that we are deserved underdogs and try and enjoy the game. It might save the old blood pressure, as well as the denial.

But...but...but...but ......Andy Gray said we had the best league in the world in the history of football (since 1993, but before that everyone was a hooligan and Leeds won the league, that's how bad it was )

- Why not just think *shrug, it's football, we can beat anyone, they can beat us*

Which at the end of the day is largely true.

I think Sven has had it very hard in that half the reason people think we are 'world class' is that he has actually (by and large) picked the best (most skillful) players and won more matches than any of his predecessors, hence we think we are good. If we'd left out the best players in favour of battlers and 'experience' and lost quite a lot (as previous managers had a tendancy to do quite a bit) no-one would have the expectations they do have.

So even though it's his fault we are good, it's his fault we aren't.

 

[muser]

Why is everybody getting so uptight about the whole thing? Everywhere you look/hear, people are slagging off Sven and moaning about pisspoor Engand form.

Wake up and smell the coffee FFS, this IS how we play.

Please no more about 'World Class' England players. Rooney, yes. Gerrard in flashes, yes. Everybody else forget it. Good, maybe. Consistent, No. World class, absolutely not. Jesus Christ, we have not under-achieved at all - we've just done what we always do.

Compare our team against Germany, Holland, Spain, Mexico...get the picture? Oh, I forgot Brazil and Argentina. We arenot in the same league, period.

If anybody believes that we are in the same league as Argentina, please kindly explain how and why. I would be intrigued.

Compare Germany's central midfield pairing and their understanding of who goes forward and who goes back, with the primary school rigidity of the England midfield who cannot adapt to the flow of play mid-game. Jesus, we bang the ball up, route 1 and hope that Rooney is on the end of it, end of.

The stats will show that Sven is probably one of, if not the most successful England coaches, and has probably made the best out of (on a WORLD scale) a collection of above-average to good players.

To read the papers, you'd think that we are all frankly dismayed that FIFA haven't just given us the trophy. But that is England all over, and probably explains why we can't count on our fellow Brits for support.

I'm an England fan, but let's get realistic - we're second tier and even with Deco and Costinha out in the QF, we will be struggling from the off.

Why not just live with the fact that we are deserved underdogs and try and enjoy the game. It might save the old blood pressure, as well as the denial.

I've been trying to write a post like this for a month now. Does sum up how most fans feel.

 

[Genghis Cohen]

Please no more about 'World Class' England players. Rooney, yes. Gerrard in flashes, yes.

Wrong way round.

I've never rated ashley cole particularly highly, but over the past two games he must have saved england conceeding two or three times.

 

[tommers]

Why is everybody getting so uptight about the whole thing? Everywhere you look/hear, people are slagging off Sven and moaning about pisspoor Engand form.

Wake up and smell the coffee FFS, this IS how we play.

Please no more about 'World Class' England players. Rooney, yes. Gerrard in flashes, yes. Everybody else forget it. Good, maybe. Consistent, No. World class, absolutely not. Jesus Christ, we have not under-achieved at all - we've just done what we always do.

Compare our team against Germany, Holland, Spain, Mexico...get the picture? Oh, I forgot Brazil and Argentina. We arenot in the same league, period.

If anybody believes that we are in the same league as Argentina, please kindly explain how and why. I would be intrigued.

Compare Germany's central midfield pairing and their understanding of who goes forward and who goes back, with the primary school rigidity of the England midfield who cannot adapt to the flow of play mid-game. Jesus, we bang the ball up, route 1 and hope that Rooney is on the end of it, end of.

The stats will show that Sven is probably one of, if not the most successful England coaches, and has probably made the best out of (on a WORLD scale) a collection of above-average to good players.

To read the papers, you'd think that we are all frankly dismayed that FIFA haven't just given us the trophy. But that is England all over, and probably explains why we can't count on our fellow Brits for support.

I'm an England fan, but let's get realistic - we're second tier and even with Deco and Costinha out in the QF, we will be struggling from the off.

Why not just live with the fact that we are deserved underdogs and try and enjoy the game. It might save the old blood pressure, as well as the denial.

yes yes, lovely.

now, what do you think of lampard?

 

[Crazy_diamond]

muser What do you think about England playing 4 5 1 and only having 50% position and also dropping that tall bloke and then playing the long ball up to Loney for 60% of the game

 

[waterloowelshy]

from my other thread but pertinent for here:


just what is going on with all the long ball stuff though? - if you watch Brazil, should they have to pass back to the goalkeeper then they will build up slowly and patiently from the back again, whereas Robinson just booted it straight back to the opposing defenders. Now that is just stupid on two counts:

firstly in the stifling heat surely it would make sense to zap the opposition by just passing around in your own half and playing keep ball before pushing forward and waiting for the break; and
also it just gives possession straight back to the other team meaning our strikers - i.e Rooney has to chase the other teams defenders like a headless chicken totally tiring himself out in the sun.

Can somebody in the England set up not just say to Robinson, we know you can kick a ball a long way - very impressive and all that - but save it for the guiness book of records and stop with the long ball shit and pass it to your defenders instead you total idiot?!

just a thought like?!

 

[Triggy]

yes yes, lovely.

now, what do you think of lampard?

Ok in the fast and furious Premiership, when playing in a clearly defined role (pushing forward) when there is another player ie. Makelele playing in another (ie holding at the back of the Midfield). Has the freedom to play his own game and take risks, knowing he has back-up.

However, like many of the England team, struggles to adapt tactically when the flow of the game changes. There is also a lack of understanding between key players to this general end.

I think that where Sven probably goes wrong, is that he talks tactics and the players simply do not understand either what he is getting at, or how to put it into place. England seem to be the only team who are engaged in chats amongthemselves wwhen coming back on for the second half of matches - almost as if they are asking eachother what's going on...

 

[muser]

muser What do you think about England playing 4 5 1 and only having 50% position and also dropping that tall bloke and then playing the long ball up to Loney for 60% of the game

I think that England gets better and better at producing mediocrity. Timmy Mallet will soon get a start up front for us. I would prefer phil cool though, as he makes me laugh. As I've already stated, England are happy with failure. Means we don't have try too hard. The sad thing is that we really could win the world cup, can play the beautiful game. But it would show we care, and we wouldn't want to do that.

 

[muser]

Ok in the fast and furious Premiership, when playing in a clearly defined role (pushing forward) when there is another player ie. Makelele playing in another (ie holding at the back of the Midfield). Has the freedom to play his own game and take risks, knowing he has back-up.

However, like many of the England team, struggles to adapt tactically when the flow of the game changes. There is also a lack of understanding between key players to this general end.

I think that where Sven probably goes wrong, is that he talks tactics and the players simply do not understand either what he is getting at, or how to put it into place. England seem to be the only team who are engaged in chats amongthemselves wwhen coming back on for the second half of matches - almost as if they are asking eachother what's going on...

I was trying to make this point too, but you've made it alot more coherently than I did. Question. Can you play football as well as you write? I have a team for you.

 

[Triggy]

I was trying to make this point too, but you've made it alot more coherently than I did. Question. Can you play football as well as you write? I have a team for you.

Sadly not, permanently confined to archair criticism!

 

[zed]

Why is everybody getting so uptight about the whole thing? Everywhere you look/hear, people are slagging off Sven and moaning about pisspoor Engand form.

Wake up and smell the coffee FFS, this IS how we play.

Please no more about 'World Class' England players. Rooney, yes. Gerrard in flashes, yes. Everybody else forget it. Good, maybe. Consistent, No. World class, absolutely not. Jesus Christ, we have not under-achieved at all - we've just done what we always do.

Compare our team against Germany, Holland, Spain, Mexico...get the picture? Oh, I forgot Brazil and Argentina. We arenot in the same league, period.

If anybody believes that we are in the same league as Argentina, please kindly explain how and why. I would be intrigued.

Compare Germany's central midfield pairing and their understanding of who goes forward and who goes back, with the primary school rigidity of the England midfield who cannot adapt to the flow of play mid-game. Jesus, we bang the ball up, route 1 and hope that Rooney is on the end of it, end of.

The stats will show that Sven is probably one of, if not the most successful England coaches, and has probably made the best out of (on a WORLD scale) a collection of above-average to good players.

To read the papers, you'd think that we are all frankly dismayed that FIFA haven't just given us the trophy. But that is England all over, and probably explains why we can't count on our fellow Brits for support.

I'm an England fan, but let's get realistic - we're second tier and even with Deco and Costinha out in the QF, we will be struggling from the off.

Why not just live with the fact that we are deserved underdogs and try and enjoy the game. It might save the old blood pressure, as well as the denial.

Yes.

Top post.

 

[John Quays]

Why is everybody getting so uptight about the whole thing? Everywhere you look/hear, people are slagging off Sven and moaning about pisspoor Engand form.

Wake up and smell the coffee FFS, this IS how we play.

Please no more about 'World Class' England players. Rooney, yes. Gerrard in flashes, yes. Everybody else forget it. Good, maybe. Consistent, No. World class, absolutely not. Jesus Christ, we have not under-achieved at all - we've just done what we always do.

Compare our team against Germany, Holland, Spain, Mexico...get the picture? Oh, I forgot Brazil and Argentina. We arenot in the same league, period.

If anybody believes that we are in the same league as Argentina, please kindly explain how and why. I would be intrigued.

Compare Germany's central midfield pairing and their understanding of who goes forward and who goes back, with the primary school rigidity of the England midfield who cannot adapt to the flow of play mid-game. Jesus, we bang the ball up, route 1 and hope that Rooney is on the end of it, end of.

The stats will show that Sven is probably one of, if not the most successful England coaches, and has probably made the best out of (on a WORLD scale) a collection of above-average to good players.

To read the papers, you'd think that we are all frankly dismayed that FIFA haven't just given us the trophy. But that is England all over, and probably explains why we can't count on our fellow Brits for support.

I'm an England fan, but let's get realistic - we're second tier and even with Deco and Costinha out in the QF, we will be struggling from the off.

Why not just live with the fact that we are deserved underdogs and try and enjoy the game. It might save the old blood pressure, as well as the denial.

Absolutely spot on. There's only one way England play and we've seen it four times this World Cup as well as the last. Endless floated mid-long balls towards where Rooney is/ was three seconds ago. Fast start, direct play, cannot keep the ball.

Lampard is better than this, I wish he'd stop that atrocious shooting though.