The Key to the England Puzzle

[ivebeenhigh]

Bollocks i'vebeenhigh, it's plangently obvious that Gerrard is one of the world's best attacking midfielders, as demonstrated by the FA Cup final where he singlehandedly stopped us winning the cup. he has to be unshackled by having a defensive midfielder behind him if England are going to win this thing.

Dont get me wrong I am a Liverpool fan and I think Gerrard is the worlds best player, what i am saying is however much England might gain from having Gerrard in the forward role, they will lose out on because they wont have the distribution from the back - the key to Gerrard scoring lots for Liverpool is when they are playing one striker with Alonso and Sissoko/Hamman providing a platform for Gerrard to get forward. England dont have the players to do that at the moment unless you want to play something like this


Beckham Carrick

Lennon Gerrard Cole

or you could play Gerrard on the right and keep Lampard in - either way I am still not sure who the best lone striker would be...

 

[ZAMB]

After watching last night's match I thought I'd like to see a game where Lampard and Owen were left on the bench - they were both pathetic. They keep saying - well, Owen isn't fully fit yet. This makes me ask the question - why is he on the team? I'm sure England have a lot of fully fit strikers that could make a better showing than he has!

Why have we 2 key players whose fitness is in doubt? I swear I'm sick of the subject of Rooney's foot - which has been a major news topic since the team was announced. My brother thinks it's because there would have been too much of a stink in the media if Lampard, Owen or Rooney had been left out. This begs the question - do England really want to win or just watch their fave players be defeated?

 

[stavros]

Carrick controls from deep with passes which extend further than predictable long balls. With a bit of pace from Lennon, Downing or both he would have a field day.

Aside from Lampard stiffling Gerrard, playing them both will also decrease Rooney's effectiveness when he's back because all three like to maraud between the final and middle third andget in each other's way, without even considering Beckham's inability to stay on the right. No way in a million squillion years will Lampard ever be the player Rooney is. It's also worth remembering that all three play their club football in a 4-3-3 system with a modern day winger up alongside the front man. Que Aaron Lennon to start?

 

[xenon]

Bench Lampard. It's not working with him and Gerard. England's lack of vigour and ideas is nothing to do with passion FFS. It's a hacknied old nonsense cliche. Gerard has to be allowed to get up field and distribute or shoot himself. Carrick on for Lampard.

Beckham done alright last night I thought. He's always being made a scapegoat.

 

[Blackmushroom]

Its not about players, its about mentality. The midfield are confused and scared. When we have the ball they don't want to get up the pitch, they'd rather just lob long balls up and not get caught on the counter.

The answer is to force Lampard and Gerrard to get forward when we have possession at gunpoint if necessary.

 

[magneze]

Lampard has been poor. I agree - Carrick should come in as a holding player ... or ... Beckham as the holding player and Lennon wide on the right ...

 

[Genghis Cohen]

In an ideal world, they'd play the 1st half one way and the 2nd half the other, but fat frank just hasnt got the work ethic for it, right at the end Gerrard ran 70/80 yards to help ashley cole whilst the fat twat just stood there wobbling about like the fucking penguin he is.

Its not about tactics or them being 'too similar' Gerrard and Scholes worked fine but they're two players who are prepared to work hard, fat frank isnt, he plays for himself, shooting on sight, me me me.

Either that or sven hasnt got the balls to tell them what to do.

Worst part is, all he has to do is score once (some twatting deflection that if it were anyone else would be an OG) and all will be forgotten.

 

[k_s]

Frank lampard is a legend- the only player who repeatedly threatened to score yesterday; whilst Gerrard was wandering about with his thumb up is arse for most of the game. Where's the drop Peter Crouch thread anyway? He's rubbish and misses more sitters than Teddy fucking Sheringham.

 

[k_s]

Its not about players, its about mentality. The midfield are confused and scared. When we have the ball they don't want to get up the pitch, they'd rather just lob long balls up and not get caught on the counter.

The answer is to force Lampard and Gerrard to get forward when we have possession at gunpoint if necessary.

Yes yes yes.

 

[ZAMB]

Lampard has been poor. I agree - Carrick should come in as a holding player ... or ... Beckham as the holding player and Lennon wide on the right ...

I think Lennon should definitely start - IMO he did more than Rooney to turn the game around.

 

[Genghis Cohen]

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/article1089690.ece

Quite like Pardew, me.

 

[kakuma]

have to agree with this

lampard is a good player, but the system isn't working, we just can't afford him, we need to play fast direct football, and we can't do it with our wierd formation, sven is trying to accomodate having too many attacking midfielders

instead of picking the players for a strategy, he is trying to pick a strategy for the players

wax on, wax off

 

[kained&able]

Frank lampard is great goal scoring midfielder he always pops up with a shot that scuffs along the ground hits a defnder and bounces in. Hes genius at it.

He doesn't really do a lot else though and well he has to! He also means that gerrad can't play to his strenghs which is really annoying as gerrad is a complete midfield player and with out a doubt world class. Carrick should be our holding midfielder pinging delightful 30 yard balls onto peopes toes and gerrad needs to be allowed to run the game and run about like the hyped up midfielder he is for liverpool.

Its harsh as fuck on lampard as he does do well for england and will score goals. I just reckon carrick/gerrad would make us a better team.


dave

 

[tommers]

Hooray!!! The "get Frank out" campaign seems to be in full swing! at last!

now I can stand in a pub and shout "fuck off frank! you're fucking shit!" every time he touches the ball and hopefully I will get more than the annoyed looks I've been getting so far.

maybe we should get t-shirts done?

 

[Balbi]

if i can just break from the norm and talk about football for a minute - you raise a good point - nicky butt is one of the few players who *got* SGEs game and revelled in it - is he injured? i think he should have gone tbh - if youse are going to play that turgid horrible game then at least bring players who understand it

Chorlton, you might have missed the fall of Nicky Butts career over the last two seasons.

Ferguson got rid of him to Newcastle, where he played so shite they loaned him to Birmingham - where he got injured and then relegated.

He's terrible now.

 

[tommers]

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/article1089690.ece

Quite like Pardew, me.

jesus. he just keeps getting better and better. I might have to marry him soon.

 

[Genghis Cohen]

Coming forward early on, towards the edge of box, space in front of him, will he play a clever reverse ball out wide to joke hole ? will he go for the obvious and play it into the space for Crouch or Shrek ? perhaps a cheeky far post lob for Bekcham to nod in ? A nice one two off one of the strikers ?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH WILL HE FUCK AS LIKE, HE'LL SCUFF THE FUCKER RIGHT AT THE KEEPER, THE TWAT.

 

[Chorlton]

Chorlton, you might have missed the fall of Nicky Butts career over the last two seasons.

Ferguson got rid of him to Newcastle, where he played so shite they loaned him to Birmingham - where he got injured and then relegated.

He's terrible now.

half million to sheffield rovers or something today... seems a shame - that hargreaves got it right today tho

 

[tommers]

half million to sheffield rovers or something today... seems a shame - that hargreaves got it right today tho

yeah, hargreaves played well i thought. start with him next game.

give frank a... um... "rest".

 

[muser]

Drop Becks, give Gerrard the Captaincy and move him more forward, tell the players that if they can walk off the pitch at the end rather than crawling off with exhaustion they are dropped!
Lets have some blood, snot and passion ffs!

Forget all of that, just give them a bit of skill on the ball.

 

[muser]

Give him time, he’ll come through.

He is an a bloody good player for us and he can be for England too. In fact he has been in the past?

Don’t start hating players so early man!

I like Frank, but he lack pace. If we have Lennon on for Beckham then we can accommodate him.

 

[muser]

After watching last night's match I thought I'd like to see a game where Lampard and Owen were left on the bench - they were both pathetic. They keep saying - well, Owen isn't fully fit yet. This makes me ask the question - why is he on the team? I'm sure England have a lot of fully fit strikers that could make a better showing than he has!

Why have we 2 key players whose fitness is in doubt? I swear I'm sick of the subject of Rooney's foot - which has been a major news topic since the team was announced. My brother thinks it's because there would have been too much of a stink in the media if Lampard, Owen or Rooney had been left out. This begs the question - do England really want to win or just watch their fave players be defeated?

true

 

[zed]

You're all missing the point, apart from Zenie.

Frank has to be in the team. He has nice eyes and is good to his mother. Plus, he can run for a long time. And Sven likes him ....and that is the most important thing.

Don't any of you understand football?

 

[DRINK?]

Lampard is sooooo overrated it is untrue....he has had the most shots in the tournament, would love to know how many have hit the target. He does nothing, sidewise passes though anything over 20 yards and it becomes a lottery, what he does a lot is is shooting, when he does score he lives off it for the next 5 games....sh*t at West Ham, carried at Chelsea, when we people stop kissing his ass and realize he is not that good...had mates who played at West Ham and it was always known that Carrick and Cole were always always better players...would much prefer to see them than that round headed hobo...get him out.

 

[ZAMB]

Frank has to be in the team. He has nice eyes and is good to his mother. Plus, he can run for a long time. And Sven likes him ....and that is the most important thing.

Isn't that what is always said by neighbours after some local guy has been picked up for some awful crime. If 'nice eyes and good to his mother' are the criteria for getting on the team, why bother with footballers at all - you could populate the team from any large prison?

 

[Rollem]

i dobn't rate frank lumpoflard.

however, having hargreaves in the team last night and a five man midfield, meant that both him and gerrard could push forward, something which works much better than lumpoflard going on one of his surges - which inevitably lead to nothing - whilst gerrard (yes, the man who has scored two goals already) gets stiffled in a defensive role.

i dont know that i would leave lumpoflard on the bench though. now, beckham on the bench with lennon on instead, is another thing entirely

 

[ZAMB]

The Times seem to agree about Lampard

That, in theory, allowed Frank Lampard to take a more advanced midfield position, yet he touched the ball only twice in the Sweden penalty area. That compared with the seven occasions he touched the ball in the area against Trinidad & Tobago.

Another curiosity from Lampard’s graphic is his tendency to operate on the left despite supposedly being in a central position ahead of Hargreaves. Perhaps he was simply copying the position in which he plays for Chelsea or maybe he was compensating for Wayne Rooney, whose chart demonstrates his remarkable propensity to drift to the right. Only twice did the Manchester United player touch the ball in positions significantly to the left of an imaginary central line.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28749-2235949,00.html

 

[Crazy_diamond]

Football isn’t a complicated game, all you need to do to win is score more goals than the other team.

Look at the history of the world cup who has won most and how do they play, Brazil is a good example of this, I have Brazilians next door and have watched a number of matches with them, they say if you watch Brazil you’ll see that they are the side whose defenders are caught off-side at the other end of the pitch far more than anyother team, all there players can score goals and do, if what they tell me is true defending isn’t something they practice, you need to attack to score so everyone is taught how to attack.

The Dutch almost got it right with what was called “total football” where every player was able to play in every position, but if you ask a South-American about that they tend to say tings like “why should a striker know how to defend” or “they were almost right but should have spent more time on attacking and less time on defending”.

So to win you need to score more goals so everyone needs to be able to score and if they get goals because you are not defending you just need to be sure you can score more than they can.

Job done, the problem with the England team isn’t the quality of the players it is the lack of quality with-in the coaching staff that is the problem.

 

[zed]

Football isn’t a complicated game, all you need to do to win is score more goals than the other team.

Look at the history of the world cup who has won most and how do they play, Brazil is a good example of this, I have Brazilians next door and have watched a number of matches with them, they say if you watch Brazil you’ll see that they are the side whose defenders are caught off-side at the other end of the pitch far more than anyother team, all there players can score goals and do, if what they tell me is true defending isn’t something they practice, you need to attack to score so everyone is taught how to attack.

The Dutch almost got it right with what was called “total football” where every player was able to play in every position, but if you ask a South-American about that they tend to say tings like “why should a striker know how to defend” or “they were almost right but should have spent more time on attacking and less time on defending”.

So to win you need to score more goals so everyone needs to be able to score and if they get goals because you are not defending you just need to be sure you can score more than they can.

Job done, the problem with the England team isn’t the quality of the players it is the lack of quality with-in the coaching staff that is the problem.

Good post. Totally agree.

England, under the right Dutch or Brazilian manager, would be almost unrecognisable from the turgid bunch of shits they are at the moment.

Venables and the early Hoddle days were the closest I've seen the England team get to playing proper football.

 

[tommers]

Football isn’t a complicated game, all you need to do to win is score more goals than the other team.

Look at the history of the world cup who has won most and how do they play, Brazil is a good example of this, I have Brazilians next door and have watched a number of matches with them, they say if you watch Brazil you’ll see that they are the side whose defenders are caught off-side at the other end of the pitch far more than anyother team, all there players can score goals and do, if what they tell me is true defending isn’t something they practice, you need to attack to score so everyone is taught how to attack.

The Dutch almost got it right with what was called “total football” where every player was able to play in every position, but if you ask a South-American about that they tend to say tings like “why should a striker know how to defend” or “they were almost right but should have spent more time on attacking and less time on defending”.

So to win you need to score more goals so everyone needs to be able to score and if they get goals because you are not defending you just need to be sure you can score more than they can.

Job done, the problem with the England team isn’t the quality of the players it is the lack of quality with-in the coaching staff that is the problem.

sorry mate, but whoever told you that is talking bollocks.

ask ossie ardiles about the need for a defence (remember his time managing tottenham?). ask keegan about his time at newcastle.

defence is just as important as attack. trust me.

am I the only one to appreciate the irony of somebody who says that defence doesn't matter then going on to attack the english coaching staff?