The Independents Immigration lies....

[nino_savatte]

Whether you like him or not, only an idiot would dismiss Tony Benn as "insignificant."

He's one of Britain's most experienced and distinguished elder statesmen.

He's also a top parliamentarian and a superb orator...something you rarely find in a politician these days.

 

[TonkaToy]

Whether you like him or not, only an idiot would dismiss Tony Benn as "insignificant."

He's one of Britain's most experienced and distinguished elder statesmen.

If you say so. Onwards and upwards with the sweepstakes then!

 

[TonkaToy]

I like the poles, they are polite, friendly, and hard working.

I'm more worried about the brain drain immigration to here is having on the poles back at home.

Yes but I think British people work harder and are nicer.

Don't look at me like that, you fucking started it!

 

[treelover]

Whatever my views on TT or Tony Benn for that matter, imo, TT has every right to create a 'when Benn dies' sweepsake, if we can do one for The Thatch, then he should be able to as well, no matter how odious we/I think it is.

Whether anyone then posts on it is another rmatter

 

[nino_savatte]

If you say so. Onwards and upwards with the sweepstakes then!

I reckon your idol, Thatcher, will pop her clogs before you have a chance to launch your divvy sweepstake, you trolling fuckwit.

 

[bluestreak]

Who is that aimed at? and imo the racism accusations at those who don't agree with you are not on?

just my two cents rather than aimed at anyone in particular.

you may think the racism accusations are not on but the logic behind it is simply that the obvious solution is to attack the businessmen that drive wages down through exploitation. if you choose to attack a symptom of the problem rather than the cause you either haven't thought things through properly or you care more about the symptom than the problem - to me this means that in the case of a person who sees the solution to exploitation of the british working classes by the upper classes as "send the foreigners home" they are either in need of education or they are anti-foreigner. this is my opinion and until someone can explain to me how being anti-immigrant rather than anti-explotation is a valid (i.e. well thought out and egalitarian) response then i'm going to hold this view.

 

[bluestreak]

Whatever my views on TT or Tony Benn for that matter, imo, TT has every right to create a 'when Benn dies' sweepsake, if we can do one for The Thatch, then he should be able to as well, no matter how odious we/I think it is.

Whether anyone then posts on it is another rmatter

i'd agree with that entirely. he has the right and i have the right to disagree, just like he and i disagree over the witch.

 

[bluestreak]

anyway, less thatch on this thread please...

treelover, i take it you disagreed with my post in some way, as exhibited by the rolleyes (a swppie agreeing with an anarchist ), do you not think this is a valid analysis of the situation?

 

[TonkaToy]

I reckon your idol, Thatcher, will pop her clogs before you have a chance to launch your divvy sweepstake, you trolling fuckwit.

Bwahahahahah! Today I feel complete.

 

[nino_savatte]

Bwahahahahah! Today I feel complete.

Bully for you.

 

[TonkaToy]

just my two cents rather than aimed at anyone in particular.

you may think the racism accusations are not on but the logic behind it is simply that the obvious solution is to attack the businessmen that drive wages down through exploitation. if you choose to attack a symptom of the problem rather than the cause you either haven't thought things through properly or you care more about the symptom than the problem - to me this means that in the case of a person who sees the solution to exploitation of the british working classes by the upper classes as "send the foreigners home" they are either in need of education or they are anti-foreigner. this is my opinion and until someone can explain to me how being anti-immigrant rather than anti-explotation is a valid (i.e. well thought out and egalitarian) response then i'm going to hold this view.

There you again, projecting that there are only two "solutions". Your solution and a stark "send the bleeding foreigners home" solution, that you like to imply eveyone has that opposes your view.

When will you understand, that being for immigration controls, is miles apart from wanting no immigration and or people people being repatriated?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Please don't blame the Poles. I know that you're very pissed off with the governments immigration policies, but don't you think it's about time you blamed the government rather than the Poles?

I mean just about everybody on the right blames the government, so why can't you? I know most people on the left are racist reactionary , cunts, but there is no need for you to be as well.

Are you really that fucking dim that you don't recognise satire when it's staring you in the face, Layabout?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Bwahahahahah! Today I feel a complete and utter cuntbag.

Same as ever then.

 

[TonkaToy]

Are you really that fucking dim that you don't recognise satire when it's staring you in the face, Layabout?

1. I am not Layabout. Please stop accusing me of being some random individual. You know full true well, that without giving up anonyminity, there is no way I can prove to you that I am not Layabout. Pack it in.

2. Satire? Isn't that a wonderful witty thing left wingers get up to, but when attempted by anyone to the right of Tony Benn, it's just some racist cunt being sick in the head?

 

[TonkaToy]

Same as ever then.

No I feel even better than I did yesteday. Yesterday was a real cunt you see, because I'd ran out of my happy pills. Now everything is rather fucking funky if you ask me.

 

[treelover]

Had to post this from CIF, well it made me laugh...

This immigration lark is really an extremely well thought out strategy by NuLabour to recapture the 'Eurovision Song' title.

By encouraging migrants from Eastern Europe it is only a question of time before one of these migrants will represent Great Britain. Afterall, all of the immigrants will be voting for one of their own in the GB contest.

Once the GB's foreign representative, say Latvian for example, croons his/her/their way through the finals, this will create a block voting bias - akin to the Scandinavian cartel - which will add Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - also possibly Russia and the other former Soviet republics- into the GB camp.

This brilliant NuLabour strategy endorsed by Sony-BMG, Universal and EMI will split the vote in Eastern Europe and create a proportional representation effect benefitting GB, which normally receives no 'null' (don't want to piss-off the French) points from those countries.

The end result will once again produce the prestigious honour of the GB gaining the top European music award. The timing in putting this plan into action is synchronized to coincide with the London Olympics in 2012.

Thanks to a leak from a caddie at Terry Wogan's golf course, CIF participants are the first to be made aware of this monumental disclosure.

The chemist opens in another half-hour, at which time I'll be able to collect my prescription - in case you wondered?

 

[editor]

If you say so.

I think you'll find that there's no shortage of people from all ends of the political spectrum saying the same about Benn.

If you're too stupid/prejudiced by your politics to recognise his intelligence of his sizeable contribution to British politics, that's your loss.

 

[bluestreak]

When will you understand, that being for immigration controls, is miles apart from wanting no immigration and or people people being repatriated?

in what way? how do you decide which immigrants are allowed in and which aren't? who decides under what criteria?

let's have a real solution from you that is:

a) politically well thought out

b) is non discriminatory to any group

e2a: also, if we have immigration controls should we not also have emigration controls - not allowing people with skills or wealth to leave the country, for example? if not, how is that not hypocritical?

 

[TonkaToy]

I think you'll find that there's no shortage of people from all ends of the political spectrum saying the same about Benn.

If you're too stupid/prejudiced by your politics to recognise his intelligence of his sizeable contribution to British politics, that's your loss.

The man deserves to be completly covered in eggs from head to toe.

What a fucking naive wanker he is. I remember him sitting there claiming that everyone who is on the dole, every single last person, wants to work. Sorry, but anyone who reckons that every single last person in the country wants to keep busy, is a complete bumbling idiot.

 

[bluestreak]

no worse than the various politicos who treat anyone on benefits as the worst sort of scroungers though. is it?

 

[TonkaToy]

in what way? how do you decide which immigrants are allowed in and which aren't? who decides under what criteria?

let's have a real solution from you that is:

a) politically well thought out

b) is non discriminatory to any group

e2a: also, if we have immigration controls should we not also have emigration controls - not allowing people with skills or wealth to leave the country, for example? if not, how is that not hypocritical?

Our government already curtails the dreams and ambitions of people whowant to leave our country. They are just very underhand r about the way they do it. Under both Labour and The Tories, there has always been an under the table agreement with the United States, not to take in many British people.

Why do you think the United States allows in way more Irish than British? I can only apply for a green card for the United States, because my mother happens to be Irish and I would be drawn in the Irish quota for a green card, because there sure as hell isn't one for us Brits and you can thank our own government for that.

Have you ever, ever got hot under the collar about that? I think not. Would you ever get off your arse and get so uptight about Brits not being allowed to go where they want? Who's the hypocrite now?

All I believe in, is fair and reciprical immigration between countries - because it's so fucking easy to impliment and it's way fairer than what we have now. I would put ethical foreign policies way further up my agenda, than dreaming about utopian open borders.

 

[TonkaToy]

no worse than the various politicos who treat anyone on benefits as the worst sort of scroungers though. is it?

I've never met or heard of a politician who believes that anyone who's on benefits is a scrounger. The only person who's ever been a complete cunt with regards to the unemployed, was some idiot who used to be in charge of the Young Conservatives who thought that poor Londoners should fish out of the Thames for food.

 

[bluestreak]

interesting post TT.

america's relationship with britain should be the yardstick by which all immigration from any country should be judged? and because one country (and i can think of one more off the top of my head) puts conditions and/or control from UK immigrants i'm the hypocrit for being ok with immigration but not exploitation?

you're a funny one. any chance of answering the question?

i could interpret that last as perhaps you meant to say that we should have reciprocal immigration agreements with each individual country - as we do in europe for example, where any resident of the EU is allowed free movement? is that what you meant?

 

[bluestreak]

I've never met or heard of a politician who believes that anyone who's on benefits is a scrounger. The only person who's ever been a complete cunt with regards to the unemployed, was some idiot who used to be in charge of the Young Conservatives who thought that poor Londoners should fish out of the Thames for food.

you weren't in the uk throughout the constant conservative attacks on the poor then? or never heard of the famous "get on your bike" quote? or the single mothers fiasco? or the "pull their socks up" quote? or the "any man over the age of 35 who still takes the bus can consider himself a failure" quote?

you're not in fact paying attention to labour's current attempts to force the sick back to work - they just ain't sick enough are they?

 

[TonkaToy]

interesting post TT.

america's relationship with britain should be the yardstick by which all immigration from any country should be judged? and because one country (and i can think of one more off the top of my head) puts conditions and/or control from UK immigrants i'm the hypocrit for being ok with immigration but not exploitation?

you're a funny one. any chance of answering the question?

i could interpret that last as perhaps you meant to say that we should have reciprocal immigration agreements with each individual country - as we do in europe for example, where any resident of the EU is allowed free movement? is that what you meant?

No. I mean for countries outside of the EU we have reciprical quotas for different types of Visa (Student, Sponsored working and permanent residence)

So if 500 South Africans want to work here, 500 Britains need to want to work in South Africa. Basically the British embassy would accept applications of South Africans, the South African embassy would do the same here. We then find out how many people want to live in either country and we then go for the least amount either way...so if 700 South Africans want to live in Britain, but 1200 Britains want to live in South Africa, then it's 700 Brits to South Africa and 700 South Africans to Britain.

Proper open borders can only work between countries, if those countries end up having a similar exchange of migrants and are both in the developed world, with stable economies. We don't have to worry about 650,000 Dutch people coming here in the next few years, do we? OK, there's only 16 Million Dutch...we don't have to worry about 650,000 French people either.

You want me to go into every single minor detail about how receprical migration would work, I could do just that, but no one in the O.B. camp has ever explained how the fuck a social security or free healthcare system would work with open borders to all.

 

[TonkaToy]

you weren't in the uk throughout the constant conservative attacks on the poor then? or never heard of the famous "get on your bike" quote? or the single mothers fiasco? or the "pull their socks up" quote? or the "any man over the age of 35 who still takes the bus can consider himself a failure" quote?

you're not in fact paying attention to labour's current attempts to force the sick back to work - they just ain't sick enough are they?

Bluestreak. I'm VERY fucking dubious about New Labours purge on the sick, but I know from first hand experience that perfectly fit people are being put onto sickness benefits just to get them off the dole queue.

Also, you said "ANY", no politician has EVER said that ANY or ALL single mothers are taking the piss, but we all know full true well, that there is a whole army of young women out there, who just want their own child and a roof over their head, more than they want anything else........

 

[tbaldwin]

This thread and others on Immigration have once again shown how some Liberal lefties always like to pretend that anyone who doesnt agree with them about immigration is a closet racist or anti immigrant.....
Both are disgraceful smears and lies....

 

[ViolentPanda]

This thread and others on Immigration have once again shown how some Liberal lefties always like to pretend that anyone who doesnt agree with them about immigration is a closet racist or anti immigrant.....
Both are disgraceful smears and lies....

Do fuck off with your pathetic generalisations, you tedious tubthumping wankstain.

 

[tbaldwin]

Do fuck off with your pathetic generalisations, you tedious tubthumping wankstain.

Its a pathetic accusation that somebody who thinks that the liberal left orthodoxy on immigration is wrong has to be some kind of closet racist...

But back to the thread as fridge magnet asked "What lies" I think that the Independent has been as guilty as anyone of twisting facts to suit their political agenda....

That agenda is about trying to be MORE Liberal than the Guardian in an effort to attract more Guardian readers....
It wasnt that long since they backed the Tories but i guess that didnt prove lucrative enough.

 

[nino_savatte]

Its a pathetic accusation that somebody who thinks that the liberal left orthodoxy on immigration is wrong has to be some kind of closet racist...

But back to the thread as fridge magnet asked "What lies" I think that the Independent has been as guilty as anyone of twisting facts to suit their political agenda....

That agenda is about trying to be MORE Liberal than the Guardian in an effort to attract more Guardian readers....
It wasnt that long since they backed the Tories but i guess that didnt prove lucrative enough.

The Guardian "backed the Tories"? When?