nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Blackmushroom said:
Some things never change, do they? Like scapegoating; because that's what this is about and it is driven almost entirely by the media.
The Independents Immigration lies....
- Thread starter tbaldwin
- Start date
Some things never change, do they? Like scapegoating; because that's what this is about and it is driven almost entirely by the media.
Barry Kades
Everythin' and Everythin'
tbaldwin said:
Thing is the figure is a complete red herring. The 15,000 refers to the net number of migrants the government predicts who'll STAY. The overwhelming majority of the recent wave of Poles will stay for a couple of years at most and then head home, in the same way the mass of Britons working overseas eventually come back. But don't let that stop your tabloid-fuelled ranting!
Blackmushroom said:
Which left is this? The SWP/Respect? No. The Socialist Party? No. SSP? No. The IWCA? Not left by their own admission. Just who do you have in mind?
Fighting the BNP isn't rocket science. The left need to ground themselves in communities and workplaces and fight for a socialist alternative. We do it in the SP, the SSP has done it AND even the SWP/Respect are being forced to do it to reach beyond studenty activists and radicalised muslims.
In Bloom said:Yep, because the migrants living in substandard accomodation in highly insecure jobs on crap money have a lot of bargaining power when it comes to this kind of thing, at least enough for the magical powers of the market to make things all okay
It will, in the end. The more new arrivals keep turning up, the longer the situation will take to stabilise.
Giles..
editor said:
Doing jobs no one wants for the money being paid. Yeah those British workers are scum aren't they demanding a living wage.
Not really sure what Spitfire pilots have to do with anything.
Do you hang round airports and ports trying to stop Germans coming in because of the ones who volunteered to fly meschersmitts?
laptop said:
True, but the current situation where you have a LOT of relatively poor countries that have recently joined the EU will not last for ever. The EU will throw money at the new joiners, and in a few years the wage gap between them and the UK etc will start to close, so there will no longer be such a big incentive for these people to go and work overseas. Look at Ireland and Spain and Portugal. They used to export lots of workers, but not so much any more.
Giles..
Giles said:
That's the idea of free movement of goods and services and, up to a point, people
After that, Poles will carry on coming because they feel like it - maybe because they can't get a decent curry in Wroclaw.
It seems to me that those who want to stop people moving think they're seeking stability - but of course they're not, they're seeking to create an imagined past, one before they noticed there was change. They probably want school holidays that stretch on forever, too.
That sounds very like much like the agenda the boss class and the right wing are coming out with: lazy british workers, scroungers etc, need a kick up the arse, cut the benefits then they will work! indeed, the proposed disability benefit cuts are aimed at filling in some of the gaps in the labour market as the immigration restrictions come in. I 'm sure that is not what you mean though Ed. Imo, many progressives seem to be keeping strange company now: Digby Jones, exploitative employers, the must have a new E/European au pair brigade. Mass immigration is serving the neo-liberal agenda, so why support it?
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
the biggest problem really is here that immigration is used by the bosses to lower wages for the rest of the working classes. i couldn't give a damn about immigration, but it seems to me that when digby jones supports it as good for business you can be damned sure that it's bad for the poor of this country.
however, to suggest that this is anything other than how immigration has ever worked ever in the entire history of the UK is IMO to have no knowledge of social history.
immigration happens because conditions are better in one place than another. until we have some sort of unified world immigration will therefore happen. anyone who begrudges people moving to get a better life is, IMO, a shit - "go on, fuck off and suffer". yeah, it might hit you but you could do it to - and many many brits do every year. it's only been recently in this country's postwar history that immigration has become higher than emigration.
so waht to do - the benefits of immigration effect us all, which is why so many people love living in multicultural areas. the negatives however include such things as lower wages for the poor. so shall we kick all the foreigners out and rant and rave about the failures of immigration and the wiberals who love it (and they often like immigration for very different reasons that digby and his vile ilk do). or shall we instead try and do something worthwhile and organise and unionise and try and change the system. theres enougn pie for everyone, working class people uniting against immigration is stupid, and accusations of racism should stick - if you'd rather attack your fellow poor because of their nationality rather than the captains of industry who keep you all poor then you ARE a racist, bigot or xenophone to my mind. working class people of all nationalities should fucking unite against those who exploit the poor and divide them against each other.
however, to suggest that this is anything other than how immigration has ever worked ever in the entire history of the UK is IMO to have no knowledge of social history.
immigration happens because conditions are better in one place than another. until we have some sort of unified world immigration will therefore happen. anyone who begrudges people moving to get a better life is, IMO, a shit - "go on, fuck off and suffer". yeah, it might hit you but you could do it to - and many many brits do every year. it's only been recently in this country's postwar history that immigration has become higher than emigration.
so waht to do - the benefits of immigration effect us all, which is why so many people love living in multicultural areas. the negatives however include such things as lower wages for the poor. so shall we kick all the foreigners out and rant and rave about the failures of immigration and the wiberals who love it (and they often like immigration for very different reasons that digby and his vile ilk do). or shall we instead try and do something worthwhile and organise and unionise and try and change the system. theres enougn pie for everyone, working class people uniting against immigration is stupid, and accusations of racism should stick - if you'd rather attack your fellow poor because of their nationality rather than the captains of industry who keep you all poor then you ARE a racist, bigot or xenophone to my mind. working class people of all nationalities should fucking unite against those who exploit the poor and divide them against each other.
It would have been better if a polish person had made it by the looks of things
editor said:
Please don't blame the Poles. I know that you're very pissed off with the governments immigration policies, but don't you think it's about time you blamed the government rather than the Poles?
I mean just about everybody on the right blames the government, so why can't you? I know most people on the left are racist reactionary , cunts, but there is no need for you to be as well.
editor said:
Do you want me to leave. Seriously, if you can't take a point tongue in cheek, there absolutly no need to ban me. Just say the word and can assure you'll, I'll never make a single post here ever again.
Go on just say it.
"I'd rather you didn't post here ever again, Tonks"
and I'll be gone.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
TonkaToy said:
Benn is an "insignificant socialist"? You're not too significant yourself, layabout.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
TonkaToy said:
You're easily confused, I can see. But don't expect any help. I am quite happy to watch you flounder.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
I like the poles, they are polite, friendly, and hard working.
I'm more worried about the brain drain immigration to here is having on the poles back at home.
I'm more worried about the brain drain immigration to here is having on the poles back at home.
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