The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[editor]

Brexit: fucking up small businesses and the environment like a pro:

A Scottish fisherman says it's "cheaper and quicker" to export his shellfish to Asia than it is to France under post-Brexit rules.

Because the UK is out of the single market, British fish exports to Europe are now subject to new customs and veterinary checks.

Jamie McMillan says this means three hours of paperwork every morning to get his shellfish to the EU. He told BBC Panorama he had turned to Asian markets to keep his business afloat and save his employees' jobs.

Exporting my fish to China is easier than to France

A Scottish fisherman says post-Brexit rules means three hours worth of paperwork for each EU order.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[editor]

Nearly one-third of British companies that trade with the EU have have now suffered a decline or loss of business; 17 per cent that previously did business with the bloc have halted it, for now or for good. Businesses are facing costs from rejigging operations and supply chains.

The pandemic, which suppressed business and leisure traffic, masked the upheavals. A reawakening economy will make more apparent the government’s sacrifices of market access in pursuit of sovereignty. Brexit’s real impact, moreover, was always going to be longer-term. Early evidence supports economists’ consensus views: erecting barriers with the UK’s nearest and largest market — for which there is no comparable substitute — will harm growth over time.

Though businesses are adjusting, signs point to an inexorable decoupling. Increased frictions in EU trade, and the costs of shifting to more distant non-EU markets, are prompting many small companies, in particular, to turn inwards on the UK. Businesses overall will benefit less from economies of scale, lowering productivity growth

Brexit has brought a slow decoupling

Six months in, disaster has not happened but disruptions are real

www.ft.com

 

[TopCat]

Gridlock, empty shelves, medicine shortages, mass unemployment, civil strife. All of this was confidently predicted but hasn’t come to pass.
Most people would think it’s all gone pretty smoothly.

 

[glitch hiker]

There were empty shelves in Tesco this morning. I am short on Broccoli and Cauliflower.

I mean, I'd add a smiley but why ruin the fun?

Brexit's effects are incoming, many are continually being kicked into the long grass. We aren't implementing the protocol right now, just whining about it. There aren't border checks being carried out.

People will start to notice, particualrly when the government stops killing us through 5G Corona mismanagement

Also best I heard: the big trade boat the Tories want to spaff nurses pay on will have to be put out to tender thanks to them. Which means the EU could build the boat we'll be sailing in to sign trade deals with them

 

[Pickman's model]

There were empty shelves in Tesco this morning. I am short on Broccoli and Cauliflower.

I mean, I'd add a smiley but why ruin the fun?

Brexit's effects are incoming, many are continually being kicked into the long grass. We aren't implementing the protocol right now, just whining about it. There aren't border checks being carried out.

People will start to notice, particualrly when the government stops killing us through 5G Corona mismanagement

Also best I heard: the big trade boat the Tories want to spaff nurses pay on will have to be put out to tender thanks to them. Which means the EU could build the boat we'll be sailing in to sign trade deals with them

i don't think monday morning's the best time to go shopping. perhaps ask one of the staff members next time you pop in when they get vegetable deliveries and time your visit accordingly. or just go to a local independent who will be very happy for your trade.

 

[glitch hiker]

i don't think monday morning's the best time to go shopping. perhaps ask one of the staff members next time you pop in when they get vegetable deliveries and time your visit accordingly. or just go to a local independent who will be very happy for your trade.

It's never been an issue before. I go to Tesco because a) there are no local independents anymore and b) because those shops are hugely dearer (Coop).

I'm not saying the shop was completely empty, I'm saying that food shortages are happening. This isn't a controversial claim

 

[Pickman's model]

It's never been an issue before. I go to Tesco because a) there are no local independents anymore and b) because those shops are hugely dearer (Coop).

I'm not saying the shop was completely empty, I'm saying that food shortages are happening. This isn't a controversial claim

i don't care if it's controversial or not, i want to know if it's true. and from the evidence of my own eyes if i can't get something in eg sainsburys they will have it down the way in marks and spencer or in the local market or one of the local independents.

 

[glitch hiker]

i don't care if it's controversial or not, i want to know if it's true. and from the evidence of my own eyes if i can't get something in eg sainsburys they will have it down the way in marks and spencer or in the local market or one of the local independents.

And they did have those products in stock in the other shop I mentioned, which may or may not speak to the claim. The problem for me, as I say, is that I can't afford their prices.

I'm sure if, people facing food shortages, cast their net wide enough they might find somehwere that does have the products they want. But for many that's not going to be practical affordable or possible. It isn't for me and it doesn't speak to the veracity of the claim. I offered the evidence of my own eyes, nothing more.

 

[Pickman's model]

And they did have those products in stock in the other shop I mentioned, which may or may not speak to the claim. The problem for me, as I say, is that I can't afford their prices.

I'm sure if, people facing food shortages, cast their net wide enough they might find somehwere that does have the products they want. But for many that's not going to be practical affordable or possible. It isn't for me and it doesn't speak to the veracity of the claim. I offered the evidence of my own eyes, nothing more.

obviously not everything's in stock all the time but if you ask the people in tesco i bet they'd say, yes we'll have it for you soon. sainsbury's and tesco can be shocking in what they don't keep in stock, it's been that way for years tho and isn't anything new.

 

[brogdale]

obviously not everything's in stock all the time but if you ask the people in tesco i bet they'd say, yes we'll have it for you soon. sainsbury's and tesco can be shocking in what they don't keep in stock, it's been that way for years tho and isn't anything new.

Sainburys is one of the retail corporations saying that shortages will begin to occur:

 

[andysays]

It's never been an issue before. I go to Tesco because a) there are no local independents anymore and b) because those shops are hugely dearer (Coop).

I'm not saying the shop was completely empty, I'm saying that food shortages are happening. This isn't a controversial claim

It isn't (or shouldn't be) a controversial claim, but I think it needs a bit of unpicking before we can be sure it's simply down to Brexit.

There are other possible reasons why your local Tesco might not have broccoli and cauliflower available when you went in this morning.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sainburys is one of the retail corporations saying that shortages will begin to occur:

View attachment 277015

no one will notice at our nearest one, they'll just think it's business as usual.

 

[brogdale]

It isn't (or shouldn't be) a controversial claim, but I think it needs a bit of unpicking before we can be sure it's simply down to Brexit.

There are other possible reasons why your local Tesco might not have broccoli and cauliflower available when you went in this morning.

Whilst correct, I think this is a little harsh; most of us have only our own limited experience to go on and if posters are experiencing shortages then information like that might inform our bigger picture, no?

FWIW, (& I'm well aware of the dangers of taking the words of interested parties at face value), capital is citing Brexit as one of the key factors behind the sector's supply side issues.



This does appear logical, tbh.

 

[Raheem]

I don't care if it's controversial or not, i want to know if it's true. and from the evidence of my own eyes if i can't get something in eg sainsburys they will have it down the way in marks and spencer or in the local market or one of the local independents.

And yet, if I were to hear someone say they went all round town and finally found broccoli in Marks and Spencers, I wouldn't take that as evidence of no food shortages.

 

[TopCat]

And they did have those products in stock in the other shop I mentioned, which may or may not speak to the claim. The problem for me, as I say, is that I can't afford their prices.

I'm sure if, people facing food shortages, cast their net wide enough they might find somehwere that does have the products they want. But for many that's not going to be practical affordable or possible. It isn't for me and it doesn't speak to the veracity of the claim. I offered the evidence of my own eyes, nothing more.

Lidl shelves are full as are the shelves in every other shop.

 

[andysays]

Whilst correct, I think this is a little harsh; most of us have only our own limited experience to go on and if posters are experiencing shortages then information like that might inform our bigger picture, no?

FWIW, (& I'm well aware of the dangers of taking the words of interested parties at face value), capital is citing Brexit as one of the key factors behind the sector's supply side issues.

View attachment 277019

This does appear logical, tbh.

TBH, I'm not surprised that the Chief Executive of the Road Haulage Association is blaming Brexit (and the restrictions imposed during the pandemic) for the shortages of drivers within his industry, or that he's calling on the government to make an immediate response, which means bending the rules so they can continue to import cheaper workers from overseas like they've been doing for many years.

But I am slightly surprised that you appear to be falling for his line, especially as we've seen (possibly on a parallel thread; I'm struggling to keep up) that the problems with shortages of drivers in the haulage industry, according to some of the workers themselves rather than the head of the bosses group, are long term issues mainly relating to pay and conditions and have been there far longer than either Brexit or Covid.

 

[Smangus]

My corner shop has run out of cans of White Lightning, Brexit fuking sucks dude

 

[The39thStep]

It isn't (or shouldn't be) a controversial claim, but I think it needs a bit of unpicking before we can be sure it's simply down to Brexit.

There are other possible reasons why your local Tesco might not have broccoli and cauliflower available when you went in this morning.

Rise of local veganism probably

 

[brogdale]

TBH, I'm not surprised that the Chief Executive of the Road Haulage Association is blaming Brexit (and the restrictions imposed during the pandemic) for the shortages of drivers within his industry, or that he's calling on the government to make an immediate response, which means bending the rules so they can continue to import cheaper workers from overseas like they've been doing for many years.

But I am slightly surprised that you appear to be falling for his line, especially as we've seen (possibly on a parallel thread; I'm struggling to keep up) that the problems with shortages of drivers in the haulage industry, according to some of the workers themselves rather than the head of the bosses group, are long term issues mainly relating to pay and conditions and have been there far longer than either Brexit or Covid.

I don't think I'm falling for a particular line from capital; of course they want to see their supply side 'flexibility' returned. But just because they're rotten capitalist scum does not make the point invalid that Brexit appears to have worsened the longer-term trends of recruitment issues that you mention.

It's pretty obvious and logical, tbh and looks like just another one of those issues that the useless vermin never concerned themselves with.

 

[andysays]

Lidl shelves are full as are the shelves in every other shop.

If people are witnessing shortages of goods in the shops they usually shop in, I don't think it's that great an argument to suggest they should go to different shops, or to say that your local shops aren't experiencing shortages.

Apart from anything else, many people genuinely don't have a range of reasonably priced shops to buy food in within reasonable travelling distance; they effectively have only one shop and if that shop is out of stock, that's the end of it.

But the question surely is why are these shortages occurring, and the answer appears to me to be far more complicated than them simply being an inevitable result of Brexit.

 

[The39thStep]

Gridlock, empty shelves, medicine shortages, mass unemployment, civil strife. All of this was confidently predicted but hasn’t come to pass.
Most people would think it’s all gone pretty smoothly.

Anyone spotted these queues of sun tanned geriatic expats from the Costa del Sol that were going to be overwhelming our NHS

 

[andysays]

Rise of local veganism probably

Shortage of local allotments

 

[The39thStep]

Shortage of local allotments

Love a bit of summer cabbage with black pepper and butter

 

[Raheem]

But the question surely is why are these shortages occurring, and the answer appears to me to be far more complicated than them simply being an inevitable result of Brexit.

IMO it must be mainly Covid. Here are my workings out.

Assume that the problem is a shortage of domestic drivers. The number of EU drivers that left the country due to Brexit is said to amount to 2-3% of the national workforce. My guess is that this is enough to cause headaches but not shortages. It also seems a bit too coincidental if it is the case that shortages are happening now and are about to get worse, at the same time as rising Covid case numbers. Why would it take six months for this slight drop in the number of drivers to bite?

Alternatively, if shortages are down to EU suppliers not wanting to send produce to the UK, or to produce spoiling in transit due to delays, then that might be attributable to Brexit. But there doesn't seem to be evidence of those things happening.

 

[brogdale]

IMO it must be mainly Covid. Here are my workings out.

Assume that the problem is a shortage of domestic drivers. The number of EU drivers that left the country due to Brexit is said to amount to 2-3% of the national workforce. My guess is that this is enough to cause headaches but not shortages. It also seems a bit too coincidental if it is the case that shortages are happening now and are about to get worse, at the same time as rising Covid case numbers. Why would it take six months for this slight drop in the number of drivers to bite?

Alternatively, if shortages are down to EU suppliers not wanting to send produce to the UK, or to produce spoiling in transit due to delays, then that might be attributable to Brexit. But there doesn't seem to be evidence of those things happening.

I suspect that one of the factors here is occupational 'churn' with HGV drivers, or potential HGV drivers, finding alternative employment opportunities in the home delivery sector and opening up sectors.

 

[The39thStep]

I suspect that one of the factors here is occupational 'churn' with HGV drivers, or potential HGV drivers, finding alternative employment opportunities in the home delivery sector and opening up sectors.

There's a bit of a pay difference tbh

 

[brogdale]

There's a bit of a pay difference tbh

Agreed, but there are other, non-remuneration, issues that might well be in play.

 

[two sheds]

My corner shop has run out of cans of White Lightning, Brexit fuking sucks dude

Tell me about it - you try buying scaffolding boards they're like golddust

 

[editor]

Gridlock, empty shelves, medicine shortages, mass unemployment, civil strife. All of this was confidently predicted but hasn’t come to pass.
Most people would think it’s all gone pretty smoothly.

Most people who don't give a flying fuck about the music and entertainment industry that is.

 

[Raheem]

Gridlock, empty shelves, medicine shortages, mass unemployment, civil strife. All of this was confidently predicted but hasn’t come to pass.
Most people would think it’s all gone pretty smoothly.

Those that have managed to convince themselves that anything sort of a zombie apocalypse is a success.