The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[editor]

The world was a much better place when truckers were Romanian and lived out of the back of their trailers for months on end, a workers' paradise that.

Naturally you boycotted all the goods produced through this system, yes? Or is your sudden concern more ideologically based?

But look how Brexit has improved the lot of these workers. Oh no, wait...

Fishing has long been known as a hard, oft-uncomfortable way to graft a living. Now fishers across the UK say their trade has been made even more difficult – by Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal.

On the fifth anniversary of the vote to leave the EU, many say their industry has been betrayed by an agreement that has effectively sacrificed one of the key promises of the Leave campaign – to keep European trawlers out of British waters – while simultaneously ending frictionless access to continental markets.


“I voted [Tory] at the last election to get Brexit done, and they’ve sold us down the f*****g river,” Nicholas spits as we gun out into the Western English Channel. “I’d never vote again except they say you can’t moan if you don’t vote – and I’ll admit I like a good moan.”


Above all, he has one outstanding question. As Brexit negotiations faltered over fishing rights last year, there was a chorus of voices – both within and outside government – urging the prime minister not to sacrifice a wider trade deal because of the demands of an industry that makes up just 0.1 per cent of the UK’s economy.

‘Stitched up and sold out’ - UK’s fishing crews outraged at Brexit betrayal five years after referendum

On the fifth anniversary of the vote to leave the EU, many in the fishing industry feel betrayed by a trade deal that effectively sacrificed one of the key promises of the Leave campaign

www.independent.co.uk

 

[editor]

No shit, Sherlock:

The deterioration in relations with the EU, partly driven by the Northern Ireland “sausage war”, has come as a surprise to those, who campaigned to leave the bloc five years ago, the government has admitted.

The Brexit minister, David Frost, said they had dreamed of a sovereign Britain, which could set forth on a global mission while maintaining friendly relations with its neighbours.



He was speaking on the eve of an expected concession by the EU to agree to the UK’s request for a three extra months to resolve the dispute over Brexit checks in Northern Ireland including those on chilled meats, nicknamed the sausage war.

Leave campaigners ‘surprised’ by decay in relations with EU, says David Frost

Brexit minister says dispute over border checks in Northern Ireland main barrier to better relationship

www.theguardian.com

 

[editor]

And more from the amazeballs Australia trade deal

Brexit not so sweet for UK’s sugar beet farmers

The National Farmers’ Union is ‘extremely concerned’ about a glut of sugar imports as a result of the UK-Australia trade deal.

www.politico.eu

 

[Dogsauce]

And more from the amazeballs Australia trade deal

Brexit not so sweet for UK’s sugar beet farmers

The National Farmers’ Union is ‘extremely concerned’ about a glut of sugar imports as a result of the UK-Australia trade deal.

www.politico.eu

Yeah, but the Queensland sugar farmers move their stuff around on little narrow gauge railways, which is all cool in my book, so more power to this deal. (U.K. rail-borne sugar traffic ended in the early 80s)

 

[glitch hiker]

No shit, Sherlock:

Leave campaigners ‘surprised’ by decay in relations with EU, says David Frost

Brexit minister says dispute over border checks in Northern Ireland main barrier to better relationship

www.theguardian.com

The unelected Brexit minister who doesn't understand his own deal

 

[quiet guy]

You'd think that they hadn't even read and understood what they signed up to

 

[TopCat]

‘Our ministers are philistines’: Elton John outraged as Brexit hits musicians

Singer attacks Boris Johnson’s administration for having no grasp of huge income generated by British artists

www.theguardian.com

 

[The39thStep]

You'd think that they hadn't even read and understood what they signed up to

This is exactly what the left EU MPs said about the EU and the Astra Zeneca deal

 

[andysays]

‘Our ministers are philistines’: Elton John outraged as Brexit hits musicians

Singer attacks Boris Johnson’s administration for having no grasp of huge income generated by British artists

www.theguardian.com

Someone really should start a thread...

 

[The39thStep]

Someone really should start a thread...

Great guy apparently

 

[brogdale]

‘Our ministers are philistines’: Elton John outraged as Brexit hits musicians

Singer attacks Boris Johnson’s administration for having no grasp of huge income generated by British artists

www.theguardian.com

Enough of this anti-semitism

 

[bimble]

.. there’ll soon be a massive long list of exceptions (‘shortage occupations’, like fruit & veg picker is already a special case, others will join maybe including barrista, bar staff etc where employers will not have to meet these rules to get non Brit workers), or else jobs and incomes for British people will rise as businesses will find a way to adjust without migrant labour lowering wages.
The last ones the hope isn’t it, i think the first two more likely.

and so it goes.

"The CBI said ministers needed to act on advice from the government’s migration advisory committee published in September, which recommended that certain roles – including butchers, bricklayers and welders – be added to the UK’s shortage occupation list."..

 

[andysays]

and so it goes.

"The CBI said ministers needed to act on advice from the government’s migration advisory committee published in September, which recommended that certain roles – including butchers, bricklayers and welders – be added to the UK’s shortage occupation list."..

Interesting to see this idea buried in paragraph four

employers needed to take greater responsibility to address labour shortages by investing in the skills of the domestic workforce, and by taking a chance on jobseekers who might otherwise be overlooked

The main reason we're seeing shortages in particular roles is because of employers' failure to invest in the skills of the domestic workforce (why train, when you can import ready trained workers from elsewhere), and although they're half heartedly acknowledged this, they're still trying to avoid take the necessary action to sort themselves out.

Given the dependency on pre-trained EU workers, and given that Brexit was always likely to affect their ability to recruit in this way, from a combination of restrictions on new workers entering and at least some of those already here leaving, they really should have done something to recruit and train from the existing domestic workforce* well in advance, rather than expecting the government to bring in special dispensations to suit them at the last minute.

*in which I include the estimated 5m EU workers who have been granted or applied for settled status - this is not just a "Jobs for Brits" thing

 

[ska invita]

I*in which I include the estimated 5m EU workers who have been granted or applied for settled status - this is not just a "Jobs for Brits" thing

just to add, those with settled status, precarious though it may be (particularly will have to wait and see just how shit pre-settled status is), are hopefully on the way to getting citizenship - they are essentially "Brits" already. Always were in my mind

 

[andysays]

just to add, those with settled status, precarious though it may be (particularly will have to wait and see just how shit pre-settled status is), are hopefully on the way to getting citizenship - they are essentially "Brits" already. Always were in my mind

In my mind too, if they want to be. I was just emphasising that point to hopefully avoid being misrepresented as I have been recently on another thread.

And as I posted on that other thread, EU national colleagues I have spoken to don't report any of the problems with getting settled status than many here have claimed would occur, so I don't think your claim that settled status will necessarily turn out to be precarious is one which should be taken for granted at this stage.

 

[ska invita]

new VAT rules kick in for trade within the EU tomorrow morning
Its so fucking complicated, and the government portal isn't even ready in time, nightmare

Here;s the effect on one sector, Discogs

, Great news! As new UK and EU supply of goods VAT regulations come into effect on July 1, Discogs will ensure buying and selling with the UK and EU remains viable by collecting supply of goods VAT on your behalf for orders placed on and after July 1st. The following changes impact sellers worldwide who sell into the UK or EU, buyers located in the UK placing an order with a seller outside the UK, and buyers in the EU placing an order with a seller outside the EU. When and how is supply of goods VAT charged? There are two supply of goods VAT scenarios: 1) sales where Discogs is responsible for collecting VAT as a deemed supplier and 2) sales where sellers are responsible for collecting VAT. Discogs is responsible for VAT when goods are imported into either the EU or UK and the buyer is not VAT registered. Sellers are responsible for VAT when goods are sold within the EU or within the UK and the buyer is not VAT registered. As the “deemed supplier”, Discogs will apply supply of goods VAT to all orders imported into the UK from outside the UK or into the EU from outside the EU. Supply of goods VAT will be applied at or under a certain low value goods threshold, as follows: The UK low value goods threshold is £135 The EU low value goods threshold is €150 Supply of goods VAT is to be paid by the buyer as part of the total order cost. UK and EU VAT will be automatically calculated and added to the order total to be paid by the buyer. The supply of goods VAT amount will be added to your monthly Discogs sales fee invoice, and we will file the VAT returns and remit the VAT to the appropriate tax authority. As a service to EU sellers who sell to buyers also located in the EU, and UK sellers who sell to buyers also located in the UK, Discogs will apply supply of goods VAT to all orders where the buyer is not VAT registered. We are providing this service to make sellers’ job of determining what is VAT taxable and what isn’t VAT taxable easier by supporting sellers’ requirements to collect and remit supply of goods VAT on intra-UK and intra-EU orders. A commercial invoice must accompany all cross border shipments Sellers will be required to attach a commercial invoice to the shipment for all cross-border sales. If you are a seller who is outside the UK and EU, and are shipping an order to a buyer in either the UK or the EU, the commercial invoice includes harmonized tariff codes for each item to speed customs clearance — essentially, a seller declaration that the invoice accurately represents the shipment, and any VAT charges. This allows customs authorities to determine whether VAT has been paid, if applicable. This can be printed from the order page. Simply click the “Print” button available in the top right section of your Order page. For buyers, the order receipt has also been updated to include full VAT invoice requirements, including harmonized tariff (HS) codes for each item purchased. VAT exemptions with a valid VAT ID If you have a valid UK or EU VAT ID, please enter this into your Settings under Tax Information on Discogs. Providing your VAT ID will exempt you from VAT charges on Discogs whether you sell on Discogs or buy, even occasionally. If your VAT ID becomes invalid, we will notify you and request that a new, valid VAT ID be entered into your Seller Settings. Add your VAT ID to your Settings » For complete information on Discogs’ compliance efforts regarding new UK and EU VAT regulations and how they affect you, please see the latest blog post. Sincerely, Discogs Great news lol. At least Discogs are trying to sort something out here, and seem to understand it and have some systems in place Flurry of panicked emails going around some traders i know today...

 

[The39thStep]

Interesting to see this idea buried in paragraph four



The main reason we're seeing shortages in particular roles is because of employers' failure to invest in the skills of the domestic workforce (why train, when you can import ready trained workers from elsewhere), and although they're half heartedly acknowledged this, they're still trying to avoid take the necessary action to sort themselves out.

Given the dependency on pre-trained EU workers, and given that Brexit was always likely to affect their ability to recruit in this way, from a combination of restrictions on new workers entering and at least some of those already here leaving, they really should have done something to recruit and train from the existing domestic workforce* well in advance, rather than expecting the government to bring in special dispensations to suit them at the last minute.

*in which I include the estimated 5m EU workers who have been granted or applied for settled status - this is not just a "Jobs for Brits" thing

This is an excellent point Andy

 

[editor]

new VAT rules kick in for trade within the EU tomorrow morning
Its so fucking complicated, and the government portal isn't even ready in time, nightmare

Here;s the effect on one sector, Discogs

, Great news! As new UK and EU supply of goods VAT regulations come into effect on July 1, Discogs will ensure buying and selling with the UK and EU remains viable by collecting supply of goods VAT on your behalf for orders placed on and after July 1st. The following changes impact sellers worldwide who sell into the UK or EU, buyers located in the UK placing an order with a seller outside the UK, and buyers in the EU placing an order with a seller outside the EU. When and how is supply of goods VAT charged? There are two supply of goods VAT scenarios: 1) sales where Discogs is responsible for collecting VAT as a deemed supplier and 2) sales where sellers are responsible for collecting VAT. Discogs is responsible for VAT when goods are imported into either the EU or UK and the buyer is not VAT registered. Sellers are responsible for VAT when goods are sold within the EU or within the UK and the buyer is not VAT registered. As the “deemed supplier”, Discogs will apply supply of goods VAT to all orders imported into the UK from outside the UK or into the EU from outside the EU. Supply of goods VAT will be applied at or under a certain low value goods threshold, as follows: The UK low value goods threshold is £135 The EU low value goods threshold is €150 Supply of goods VAT is to be paid by the buyer as part of the total order cost. UK and EU VAT will be automatically calculated and added to the order total to be paid by the buyer. The supply of goods VAT amount will be added to your monthly Discogs sales fee invoice, and we will file the VAT returns and remit the VAT to the appropriate tax authority. As a service to EU sellers who sell to buyers also located in the EU, and UK sellers who sell to buyers also located in the UK, Discogs will apply supply of goods VAT to all orders where the buyer is not VAT registered. We are providing this service to make sellers’ job of determining what is VAT taxable and what isn’t VAT taxable easier by supporting sellers’ requirements to collect and remit supply of goods VAT on intra-UK and intra-EU orders. A commercial invoice must accompany all cross border shipments Sellers will be required to attach a commercial invoice to the shipment for all cross-border sales. If you are a seller who is outside the UK and EU, and are shipping an order to a buyer in either the UK or the EU, the commercial invoice includes harmonized tariff codes for each item to speed customs clearance — essentially, a seller declaration that the invoice accurately represents the shipment, and any VAT charges. This allows customs authorities to determine whether VAT has been paid, if applicable. This can be printed from the order page. Simply click the “Print” button available in the top right section of your Order page. For buyers, the order receipt has also been updated to include full VAT invoice requirements, including harmonized tariff (HS) codes for each item purchased. VAT exemptions with a valid VAT ID If you have a valid UK or EU VAT ID, please enter this into your Settings under Tax Information on Discogs. Providing your VAT ID will exempt you from VAT charges on Discogs whether you sell on Discogs or buy, even occasionally. If your VAT ID becomes invalid, we will notify you and request that a new, valid VAT ID be entered into your Seller Settings. Add your VAT ID to your Settings » For complete information on Discogs’ compliance efforts regarding new UK and EU VAT regulations and how they affect you, please see the latest blog post. Sincerely, Discogs Great news lol. At least Discogs are trying to sort something out here, and seem to understand it and have some systems in place Flurry of panicked emails going around some traders i know today...

It's a fucking mess, and it's ridiculous expecting small seller/buyers to have to try and work it out.

 

[brogdale]

Yeah, fuck it.

 

[ska invita]

It's a fucking mess, and it's ridiculous expecting small seller/buyers to have to try and work it out.

update on this
to avoid customers paying VAT at their end you have to register with a thing (IOSS), basically an offshore agency - cost £300 registration + £2000 annual fee
so yeah ANY sale into the EU, however small, will incur the receiver having to pay a VAT fee at their end on receiving envelope, unless you set that up
that includes anyone in NI buying from mainland UK

 

[editor]

update on this
to avoid customers paying VAT at their end you have to register with a thing (IOSS), basically an offshore agency - cost £300 registration + £2000 annual fee
so yeah ANY sale into the EU, however small, will incur the receiver having to pay a VAT fee at their end on receiving envelope, unless you set that up
that includes anyone in NI buying from mainland UK

That is fucking ridiculous. What a load of fucking shit Brexit is.

 

[Spymaster]

Yeah, fuck it.

This has been on the cards for ages. What it will mean is that the UK financial services sector will aggressively compete with the EU's.

Expect to he wholesale deregulation of UK financial reporting requirements.

This is what hardcore City Brexiteers wanted. There's going to be a proper scrap!

 

[Dogsauce]

update on this
to avoid customers paying VAT at their end you have to register with a thing (IOSS), basically an offshore agency - cost £300 registration + £2000 annual fee
so yeah ANY sale into the EU, however small, will incur the receiver having to pay a VAT fee at their end on receiving envelope, unless you set that up
that includes anyone in NI buying from mainland UK

When I’ve sold stuff on eBay in the past (old SW toys etc) a lot of it has been bought by Germans, Dutch etc., probably most of the higher end items. No bother at all. Can’t even be bothered trying to list stuff now until this gets sorted out. It’s the ‘small people’ getting fucked again.

 

[TopCat]

I’d love to believe Brexit is working. But why are there so many weird shortages? | Zoe Williams

Haribo supplies are under threat. I’m already struggling to buy Um Bongo and seaweed salad. What does this tell us – except that I need to improve my diet, asks Guardian columnist Zoe Williams

www.theguardian.com

Has anyone other than Zoe noticed empty shelves and shortages?

 

[andysays]

I’d love to believe Brexit is working. But why are there so many weird shortages? | Zoe Williams

Haribo supplies are under threat. I’m already struggling to buy Um Bongo and seaweed salad. What does this tell us – except that I need to improve my diet, asks Guardian columnist Zoe Williams

www.theguardian.com

Has anyone other than Zoe noticed empty shelves and shortages?

TBH, I don't normally buy either Um Bongo or seaweed salad, so wouldn't notice any shortages of those particular items, which I'm sure must be simply devastating to those experiencing them.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’d love to believe Brexit is working. But why are there so many weird shortages? | Zoe Williams

Haribo supplies are under threat. I’m already struggling to buy Um Bongo and seaweed salad. What does this tell us – except that I need to improve my diet, asks Guardian columnist Zoe Williams

www.theguardian.com

Has anyone other than Zoe noticed empty shelves and shortages?

It's hard to tell at our local Sainsbury's which has been soviet for some years now

 

[brogdale]

At least the ration-books will be blue!

 

[The39thStep]

I’d love to believe Brexit is working. But why are there so many weird shortages? | Zoe Williams

Haribo supplies are under threat. I’m already struggling to buy Um Bongo and seaweed salad. What does this tell us – except that I need to improve my diet, asks Guardian columnist Zoe Williams

www.theguardian.com

Has anyone other than Zoe noticed empty shelves and shortages?

Just trying to make anybody who sees a downside of Brexit being posh and out of touch.

 

[philosophical]

So the vote was for the UK to leave the EU.
And only posh people recognise that the land border in Ireland that separates the UK from the EU as being a problem, a downside?
Brexit as voted for is not happening, and whatever is actually happening is fucking up a lot of lives.
Still, Lexit eh?

 

[The39thStep]

It's hard to tell at our local Sainsbury's which has been soviet for some years now

No shortage of jars of blueberries then