The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[andysays]

Intersting article on the RTP website in Portugal ( probably extracted from some UK media )

That economist suggesting at the end of you quote that higher wages might be necessary to attract UK workers to particular roles is obviously crazy. Next he'll be suggesting that UK employers might have to train their own employees rather than getting them ready trained from other countries.

No surprise to see the original quote is from the Guardian...

 

[Loose meat]

It might even result in greater personal dignity and less reliance on food banks. Crazy days.

 

[existentialist]

It might even result in greater personal dignity and less reliance on food banks. Crazy days.

Ah, I think I can see where you're coming from. And you've got blond hairs all over yourself...

 

[ska invita]

Intersting article on the RTP website in Portugal ( probably extracted from some UK media )

correct me if Im wrong please
why would anyone from the EU be looking at these job ads at all - its illegal for them to work here now isnt it? and no doubt the jobs too low paying to be able to get a work visa - threshold is around £26k pa IIRC

 

[andysays]

correct me if Im wrong please
why would anyone from the EU be looking at these job ads at all - its illegal for them to work here now isnt it? and no doubt the jobs too low paying to be able to get a work visa - threshold is around £26k pa IIRC

You've made this claim about it being illegal for anyone from the EU to work here in the UK a few times recently.

Could you please either post something to substantiate it or admit that you've made a mistake and retract it.

 

[ska invita]

You've made this claim about it being illegal for anyone from the EU to work here in the UK a few times recently.

Could you please either post something to substantiate it or admit that you've made a mistake and retract it.

Read the post again, it's not a claim its a request for clarification from someone who knows the rules

 

[Loose meat]

Read the post again, it's not a claim its a request for clarification from someone who knows the rules

30 seconds on Google tells you there are diff kinds of worker visas. Temp worker = under 12-months, etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

Read the post again, it's not a claim its a request for clarification from someone who knows the rules

It is a claim only it's a claim with a please tell me if I'm wrong attached. A request for clarification looks like here's something I'd like clarification on, rather different. And as Loose meat points out, a moment on Google shows you're talking out of your fundament.

 

[ska invita]

Googled. .gov.uk website says minimum earnings to get visa must be 25600£ pa

 

[ska invita]

It is a claim only it's a claim with a please tell me if I'm wrong attached. A request for clarification looks like here's something I'd like clarification on, rather different. And as Loose meat points out, a moment on Google shows you're talking out of your fundament.

To a pedant I can see how confusing life must be

 

[Ax^]

It might even result in greater personal dignity and less reliance on food banks. Crazy days.

send em all down the mines

 

[Loose meat]

Googled. .gov.uk website says minimum earnings to get visa must be 25600£ pa

You just wrote its "illegal". Google still available. 25.600 euros is about £22, 500 - min wage comes out at just under £19K now.

 

[andysays]

Read the post again, it's not a claim its a request for clarification from someone who knows the rules

It's not just that one post (which could be interpreted as a request for info but could just as easily be a statement couched in the form of a question) it's a whole series of similar posts you seem to have made recently.

So let's be clear - it is not illegal for EU citizens to work in the UK.

What has happened is that various administrative procedures have changed, which has certainly caused serious problems in some cases, but by suggesting what you have repeatedly suggested you do your argument no favours, TBH

 

[andysays]

Googled. .gov.uk website says minimum earnings to get visa must be 25600£ pa

Is this to start a new job or continue in an existing one?

 

[Loose meat]

.....

 

[Pickman's model]

To a pedant I can see how confusing life must be

What's confusing is why you posted this drivel. I look forward to the next time you whine about ad homs reminding you how happy you are to dish it out and how reluctant you are to take it

 

[Dogsauce]

That economist suggesting at the end of you quote that higher wages might be necessary to attract UK workers to particular roles is obviously crazy. Next he'll be suggesting that UK employers might have to train their own employees rather than getting them ready trained from other countries.

No surprise to see the original quote is from the Guardian...

It’s the job of workers to train themselves these days, and pay for it, hence university fees and internships. Gone are the days when people like my dad did about a decade of day release and night school, paid for by the company. Fuck it, you’re on your own now. Neoliberalism says you have to ‘invest in yourself’, if you have the capital.

 

[existentialist]

It’s the job of workers to train themselves these days, and pay for it, hence university fees and internships. Gone are the days when people like my dad did about a decade of day release and night school, paid for by the company. Fuck it, you’re on your own now. Neoliberalism says you have to ‘invest in yourself’, if you have the capital.

Or someone will lend it to you, and you get to spend the first decades of your working life in hock.

 

[TopCat]

Or someone will lend it to you, and you get to spend the first decades of your working life in hock.

Or worse, living a teenagers life into your forties, no ambition as it triggers loan repayments.

 

[brogdale]

Some evidence of the trading impacts of the post-Brexit arrangements:

 

[andysays]

Some evidence of the trading impacts of the post-Brexit arrangements:

If there any attempt there to separate out the effects from Brexit with those from COVID?

If the fall in sales was similar across EU and non-EU states, that would suggest to me it was mostly the result of COVID, but it there was a significant difference, then that difference would presumably give us some idea of how much was the result of Brexit.

 

[brogdale]

If there any attempt there to separate out the effects from Brexit with those from COVID?

If the fall in sales was similar across EU and non-EU states, that would suggest to me it was mostly the result of COVID, but it there was a significant difference, then that difference would presumably give us some idea of how much was the result of Brexit.

Can't speak to the methodology of the number crunching, but this was the follow-up tweet from the BBC:

 

[Raheem]

If there any attempt there to separate out the effects from Brexit with those from COVID?

If the fall in sales was similar across EU and non-EU states, that would suggest to me it was mostly the result of COVID, but it there was a significant difference, then that difference would presumably give us some idea of how much was the result of Brexit.

You can see from the graphic that the fall was exclusively / almost exclusively related to EU states.

 

[andysays]

Can't speak to the methodology of the number crunching, but this was the follow-up tweet from the BBC:

Yeah, it certainly looks from the original graphic that the EU figures have fallen more than the non-EU ones, but it's not clear to me how much, or how significant that is.

If we're interested in overall import/export balances*, we also need to factor in reductions in imports from the EU.

*this isn't the only thing we should be interested in, but it is a significant part of the overall picture.

 

[Cerv]

If there any attempt there to separate out the effects from Brexit with those from COVID?

If the fall in sales was similar across EU and non-EU states, that would suggest to me it was mostly the result of COVID, but it there was a significant difference, then that difference would presumably give us some idea of how much was the result of Brexit.

the graph is labelled in blue and red for the EU and non-EU bars in the stack.

 

[brogdale]

Yeah, it certainly looks from the original graphic that the EU figures have fallen more than the non-EU ones, but it's not clear to me how much, or how significant that is.

If we're interested in overall import/export balances*, we also need to factor in reductions in imports from the EU.

*this isn't the only thing we should be interested in, but it is a significant part of the overall picture.

tbf, it looks pretty clear to me.

 

[andysays]

the graph is labelled in blue and red for the EU and non-EU bars in the stack.

Thanks. I can see that, but on my little screen I can't get that great an idea of the relative size of the changes.

 

[brogdale]

Thanks. I can see that, but on my little screen I can't get that great an idea of the relative size of the changes.

Does this help?

 

[andysays]

Does this help?

View attachment 274132

I think that's pretty clear that it's Brexit not COVID.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Food and drink exports of course never go to hospitality environments that have been closed for the first half of this year...