The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[philosophical]

soz where did i say that?

In your personal message to me.
When I asked you if I should post that message out in the forum you firstly said to do it, then immediately said not to because posting personal messages is not allowed.
Actually I was grateful that you changed your mind and warned me not to.

 

[philosophical]

Keep taking the tablets dear.

I believe that previously you have said you voted leave.
If I am right, that might go some way to explain your personal antipathy to me which conveniently replaces any reasoned argument you fail to provide.

 

[belboid]

I have not called everybody who disagrees with me a cunt.
You are struggling with reality.
Your exhortation that I go fuck myself is a smokescreen to divert from your inability to make a reasoned argument.
If the whole of the UK has left the whole of the EU as voted for on the ballot paper how has the land border on the island of Ireland between those two separate systems manifested itself?
It hasn’t, therefore ‘leave’ has not happened as voted for.
Now if only for entertainment purposes, if you wish to continue with the personal abuse could you make it more creative and original?

I did, but you’re too much of a monomaniac mumpsimus to have realised.

it is a fact that the entire uk has left the eu. The ballot paper made no mention of borders, land or otherwise. Hence it is you adding non-existing requirements to a simple proposition that has been carried through (albeit atrociously).

 

[philosophical]

I did, but you’re too much of a monomaniac mumpsimus to have realised.

it is a fact that the entire uk has left the eu. The ballot paper made no mention of borders, land or otherwise. Hence it is you adding non-existing requirements to a simple proposition that has been carried through (albeit atrociously).

I disagree.
The ballot paper mentioned ‘the UK’ which is an entity within borders.
I think it is you who has failed to realise that ‘leave’ as voted for has not happened.
If you have evidence pertaining to the changes on the land border in Ireland since the vote, then post the links as I am open to further facts and knowledge in that area.

 

[belboid]

I disagree.
The ballot paper mentioned ‘the UK’ which is an entity within borders.
I think it is you who has failed to realise that ‘leave’ as voted for has not happened.
If you have evidence pertaining to the changes on the land border in Ireland since the vote, then post the links as I am open to further facts and knowledge in that area.

So you agree that it is you adding words which aren’t there. That’s a start.

So now I’m sure you’ll be able to find pieces from the British government and the EU that states the six counties are full members of the EU.

Come back as soon as you’ve done that, but not before. Thank you.

 

[philosophical]

So you agree that it is you adding words which aren’t there. That’s a start.

So now I’m sure you’ll be able to find pieces from the British government and the EU that states the six counties are full members of the EU.

Come back as soon as you’ve done that, but not before. Thank you.

Adding words to what was on the ballot paper?

For clarity this is a copy of the 2016 ballot paper:


What words have I added to this?

 

[belboid]

Adding words to what was on the ballot paper?

For clarity this is a copy of the 2016 ballot paper:

View attachment 277217
What words have I added to this?

Six letters. Starts with a B

 

[philosophical]

Border. Repeatedly.

If there are two entities side by side as in the UK and the EU, then what seperates them is commonly called a border.
If you want to disappear down a rabbit hole to suggest that a border isn't implied by the ballot paper I'll leave you to it.
To me the concept of 'leave' means a border.

 

[Pickman's model]

In your personal message to me.
When I asked you if I should post that message out in the forum you firstly said to do it, then immediately said not to because posting personal messages is not allowed.
Actually I was grateful that you changed your mind and warned me not to.

it seems you haven't taken my warning to heart

from the faq

post reported

 

[belboid]

If there are two entities side by side as in the UK and the EU, then what seperates them is commonly called a border.
If you want to disappear down a rabbit hole to suggest that a border isn't implied by the ballot paper I'll leave you to it.
To me the concept of 'leave' means a border.

I see you added the word ‘imply’. Good, you are almost accepting your wrongness. The wording ‘implies’ many things, but implications don’t count, only agreed facts.

Which returns me to my previous exhortation:

I’m sure you’ll be able to find pieces from the British government and the EU that states the six counties are full members of the EU.

Come back as soon as you’ve done that, but not before. Thank you.

 

[philosophical]

it seems you haven't taken my warning to heart

from the faq
View attachment 277219
post reported

You asked in public 'where did I say that'?
And I told you.
If you are now using a clever maneuver to try to get me banned then so be it, I would hope those in charge can see the alleged offence for what it is.
A trick played by you.

 

[andysays]

Where is the land border between the six counties and the EU then?

If you have evidence pertaining to the changes on the land border in Ireland since the vote, then post the links as I am open to further facts and knowledge in that area.

We've been over this at least once, possibly more.

The location of the border between the UK and Eire (and hence now between the UK and the EU) is exactly where it's been since the partition of Ireland on 3 May 1921.

 

[Pickman's model]

You asked in public 'where did I say that'?
And I told you.

you posted up something from a private conversation. and then you posted up some more from a private conversation. and this after being clearly told that this was against the rules of the boards, as you acknowledge.

 

[philosophical]

I see you added the word ‘imply’. Good, you are almost accepting your wrongness. The wording ‘implies’ many things, but implications don’t count, only agreed facts.

Which returns me to my previous exhortation:

I’m sure you’ll be able to find pieces from the British government and the EU that states the six counties are full members of the EU.

Come back as soon as you’ve done that, but not before. Thank you.

This really is circular.
The 'fact' is the word 'leave' was printed.
Leave hasn't happened in a practical sense on the land border between the EU and the UK.

 

[belboid]

This really is circular.
The 'fact' is the word 'leave' was printed.
Leave hasn't happened in a practical sense on the land border between the EU and the UK.

I’m sure you’ll be able to find pieces from the British government and the EU that states the six counties are full members of the EU.

Come back as soon as you’ve done that, but not before. Thank you.

 

[philosophical]

you posted up something from a private conversation. and then you posted up some more from a private conversation. and this after being clearly told that this was against the rules of the boards, as you acknowledge.

I answered your question.
I answered by mentioning part of something you wrote to me as a helpful answer to your enquiry.
What I was told was that copying the contents of the whole of a conversation was against the rules.
Not helpfully answering your question with a reminder which is what I have done.
Anyway, well played if you have tricked me into being banned, you love a no platforming I'll wager.

 

[philosophical]

We've been over this at least once, possibly more.

The location of the border between the UK and Eire (and hence now between the UK and the EU) is exactly where it's been since the partition of Ireland on 3 May 1921.

This is what the border used to look like in places:


This is what it looked like at the time of the referendum:



Can you tell me what has changed since the vote to leave?

 

[Pickman's model]

I answered your question.
I answered by mentioning part of something you wrote to me as a helpful answer to your enquiry.
What I was told was that copying the contents of the whole of a conversation was against the rules.
Not helpfully answering your question with a reminder which is what I have done.
Anyway, well played if you have tricked me into being banned, you love a no platforming I'll wager.

i never told you anything of the sort, and i haven't tricked you into anything.

 

[philosophical]

i never told you anything of the sort, and i haven't tricked you into anything.

Re-vist your private messages to me on May 14th and you will see that I am right.
(Am I allowed to even reference that you sent any private messages at all?)

 

[TopCat]

Now if only for entertainment purposes, if you wish to continue with the personal abuse could you make it more creative and original?

You suck diseased dogs cocks.

 

[belboid]

You suck diseased dogs cocks.

Should be ‘dicks’ for full alliterative effect.

 

[brogdale]

Coming late to this discussion, it looks a little odd.
Why would anyone want to argue that NI is still in the EU when it's a matter of factual record that it's only in the supra-state's single market, not its political union?

 

[philosophical]

Should be ‘dicks’ for full alliterative effect.

Exactly.
Needs more work.

 

[philosophical]

Coming late to this discussion, it looks a little odd.
Why would anyone want to argue that NI is still in the EU when it's a matter of factual record that it's only in the supra-state's single market, not its political union?

Perhaps the way to look at it not that NI is still in the EU, but that the UK hasn't left the EU.

 

[brogdale]

Perhaps the way to look at it not that NI is still in the EU, but that the UK hasn't left the EU.

M8 you really need to keep up with current affairs.

 

[belboid]

Perhaps the way to look at it not that NI is still in the EU, but that the UK hasn't left the EU.

You’re name implies you should be knowledgeable of key philosophical concepts. Ones like logic and causation. Yet this is contradicted by what you post. Almost as if their can be false implications.

2.3: Implications

math.libretexts.org

 

[philosophical]

M8 you really need to keep up with current affairs.

My stance has been that in a practical sense the border is completely open.
My argument has been that it seems illogical that if the UK is supposed to have left then changes would not be manifest on the land border.
The shenanigans, as yet seemingly unresolved, regarding the 'border in the Irish Sea' point to the notion that once leaving is supposed to have happened some kind of border somewhere is established.
Recent developments have led to resistance to the notion of the Irish Sea Border (a confirmation that both the EU and the UK see 'a' border as a consequence that flows from leaving). The practical realities indicate that the 'leaving' has at the very least not fully happened, which is my point about that isn't what was voted for...a partial dogs dinner kind of leaving...the vote was simply (sic) to leave.
I don't know if you think leaving has happened in terms of all border issues being neatly sorted and agreed, but it doesn't look like that from my perspective.
It looks like a wide open bit of territory across which anything goes.
If the concept of leaving only applies to laws and paperwork and declarations and rules and such like...not practicalities, then maybe a clever lawyer can point to the paperwork and declare 'lo! The UK has left the EU', but that looks like an Emperor's New Clothes scenario, the UK has left the EU if you believe hard enough, but the practicalities are a different matter, just as you'll freeze your bollocks off in cold weather if you start to wear the same clothes as the Emperor.
Current affairs are the start of the Marching Season, and you may well find resentment about the sea border rearing its head during the time of those events.
You may well decry my references to a border as you have done above, but it is still a live issue.

 

[TopCat]

Fuck all the Orange marching bastards.

 

[Des Kinvig]

the issue of a border is surely down to the single market, rather than the eu, no? we could have left the eu and remained in the single market, therefore having no controlled borders, but we would have still left the eu. what defines being in the eu or not isn’t whether or not you have a controlled border with it.

 

[philosophical]

You’re name implies you should be knowledgeable of key philosophical concepts. Ones like logic and causation. Yet this is contradicted by what you post. Almost as if their can be false implications.

2.3: Implications

math.libretexts.org

Isn't it more complex than that?
For example is 'freedom' a viable concept, or is such a state better described as the absence of restrictions because as Rousseau points out.