The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[TopCat]

Interesting take on "cold water". All he's saying is that the NIP is unlikely to change. He also said that 'the Irish perspective is the hope the EU will show some flexibility on this'. The Irish don't give a fuck about checks on goods between GB and Northern Ireland. If the UK and Ireland could kick that can down the road forever I'm pretty sure they would and this is the first attempt to do so.

Will the EU take into consideration (at all) the view of the Irish?

 

[Flavour]

Maybe in future when you are ordering stuff you can pay the courier a small fee to re-route through the Dublin-Belfast-Liverpool route and therefore avoid VAT and shit

 

[brogdale]

oh
the impression its left me with is the oven ready deal is shit and northern ireland is hurting from it, and the grace period is desperately needed to be extended for at least two more years, so if it isnt extended it reflects badly on the deal itself and the tory government more broadly. if this is a move to say 'look how good i am at politics' its not really worked on me, though maybe im not the target audience for such genius
Gove can write an ineffective letter to clear up mess of his own making, well done him

Well, according to the regime this deal never was the fabled 'oven ready' deal; they claim they were talking about the WA.
Of course it's shit for some NI businesses but, with an 80 seat majority, Johnson didn't have to worry about the province or their fuckwit politicians; the was not going to get in the way of the prize.

Gove has just seized on the supra-state's vaccine fuck-up to draw attention to the other border.

Very little will change.

 

[kebabking]

Interesting take on "cold water". All he's saying is that the NIP is unlikely to change. He also said that 'the Irish perspective is the hope the EU will show some flexibility on this'. The Irish don't give a fuck about checks on goods between GB and Northern Ireland.

This really - the issue of the border and not inflaming fisticuffs is the absolute holy-of-holy of Irish political objectives, I would say it - in the end -probably equals (and possibly just edges past) the Irish commitment to membership of the Single Market and Customs Union.

They are in a difficult position, but they are politically astute enough to grasp that however well intentioned the current NI arrangements aren't working, and that either 'something better' replaces them, or at some point to UK government will pull the big handle due to ever-increacing political dissatisfaction. The IG would far rather have some influence over what and when than none, so they will be pushing within the EU for some movement.

The EU personalities and structures might be uncomfortably indifferent to the problems - and therefore political/other consequences - of the NIP within NI, but I promise you that the Irish Government isn't.

 

[MickiQ]

Maybe in future when you are ordering stuff you can pay the courier a small fee to re-route through the Dublin-Belfast-Liverpool route and therefore avoid VAT and shit

This is why the agreement isn't going to change, If there is free movement of goods between NI and UK and then between NI and EU enabling people to effectively choose wherever they pay their taxes then its only a matter of time before some Irish entrepreneurs see a gap in the market and step up to offer the service both ways Yay for free enterprise!

 

[Flavour]

Well I for one think it's great that all those unemployed ex-paras can relight the smuggling wick and get back to business. A brexit victory, you might say

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well, according to the regime this deal never was the fabled 'oven ready' deal; they claim they were talking about the WA.

Yes but that's a fib. We shouldn't go along with it.

 

[Spymaster]

The Irish are stuck in the middle over brexit, have been from the start.

That was always going to be the case though wasn't it. The thinking here is probably that if this get pushed down the road for a couple of years, then maybe another couple, then another ... the EU will eventually realise that the UK isn't using NI as a back door to the flood them with poisonous untaxed food (or if they are it isn't working very well) and stop caring, or that Ireland unites and the problem goes away.

 

[brogdale]

Yes but that's a fib. We shouldn't go along with it.

Yes, of course it was one of the many lies...and no I wasn't going along with it, merely pointing out that Johnson's Irish seas border cave-in was never 'oven-ready' WTFTM.

 

[kebabking]

That was always going to be the case though wasn't it. The thinking here is probably that if this get pushed down the road for a couple of years, then maybe another couple, then another ... the EU will eventually realise that the UK isn't using NI as a back door to the flood them with poisonous untaxed food (or if they are it isn't working very well) and stop caring.

I think the IG would be happy to see a 'these are the rules, but as long as people don't take the piss no one applies them for the sake of a quiet life' approach, but one of the problems the EU has in this regard is that it's a very legalistic organisation rather than a very political one. You could probably argue that the member states could live with the 'blind eye' solution, but the EU structures - and the commission- couldn't.

This comes back to the much wider political issue of the EU not being the servant of the member states, but - if not their master, then their equal.

 

[teuchter]

Now look what's happening. How can you defend this, Brexiters?

 

[fishfinger]

Now look what's happening. How can you defend this, Brexiters?

It's Britain moving further from mainland Europe.

 

[brogdale]

Sounds like the Guardian spoke with a very charitable NI voter...

 

[brogdale]

It's Britain moving further from mainland Europe.

& looks like the sort of mass movement born of the erosion and undercutting of trust and constant weathering of cynicism seen here in Brexitland...

 

[teuchter]

It's Britain moving further from mainland Europe.

It's a portion of Britain moving closer to mainland Europe, surely.

 

[fishfinger]

It's a portion of Britain moving closer to mainland Europe, surely.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's Britain moving further from mainland Europe.

it's a drill for when boris johnson visits

 

[brogdale]

It's a portion of Britain moving closer to mainland Europe, surely.

No, the talus debris cone will quickly be transported away along the coastline by wave action, tidal scour and sediment cell currents , leaving the gap between the land mass either side of the channel marginally wider. fishfinger was right; you are wrong.

 

[two sheds]

I can't see them ignoring food imports being slipped over the border into the EU if we start getting American antibiotic fed meat.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, of course it was one of the many lies...and no I wasn't going along with it, merely pointing out that Johnson's Irish seas border cave-in was never 'oven-ready' WTFTM.

does it need pointing out that boris johnson has never used an oven?

 

[brogdale]

I can't see them ignoring food imports being slipped over the border into the EU if we start getting American antibiotic fed meat.

It will be very surprising if Gove gets anything more than a brief, temporary extension to the 'grace periods'. But that won't bother Gove; the impression that he's stood up to the supra-state is already fixed...whatever the outcome. Job done.

 

[brogdale]

does it need pointing out that boris johnson has never used an oven?

Insert bun-based 'jokes' here?

 

[ska invita]

Insert bun-based 'jokes' here?

 

[kebabking]

It will be very surprising if Gove gets anything more than a brief, temporary extension to the 'grace periods'. But that won't bother Gove; the impression that he's stood up to the supra-state is already fixed...whatever the outcome. Job done.

More nuanced than that - Gove was always, of the brexiteers, the one most keen on a deal. His tweeting/briefing post-gangfuck has been the most conciliatory: he's positioning himself not just as (even?) as the brexiteers brexiteer, but as the 'yes, if we really have to's brexiteer.

if he was going for the foaming loon vote he'd be honking off, and certainly not talking about extension periods.

He's certainly positioning himself for when the Great Leader wanders into glorious retirement though, no argument about that...

 

[bimble]

Probably a good news story from the baby bee’s perspective.

Brexit rules mean 15m baby bees may be seized and burned, says beekeeper

Patrick Murfet says he tried to import bees via Northern Ireland but was told they would be destroyed

www.theguardian.com

 

[brogdale]

More nuanced than that - Gove was always, of the brexiteers, the one most keen on a deal. His tweeting/briefing post-gangfuck has been the most conciliatory: he's positioning himself not just as (even?) as the brexiteers brexiteer, but as the 'yes, if we really have to's brexiteer.

if he was going for the foaming loon vote he'd be honking off, and certainly not talking about extension periods.

He's certainly positioning himself for when the Great Leader wanders into glorious retirement though, no argument about that...

Not forgetting that it was Gove himself, charged by Johnson with leading the 'parallel negotiations', that struck the NI element of the deal. So he is also motivated to attempt to clear up his own shit here, lest it be used against him by Sunak's 'clean-skin' campaign.

 

[Supine]

Probably a good news story from the baby bee’s perspective.

Brexit rules mean 15m baby bees may be seized and burned, says beekeeper

Patrick Murfet says he tried to import bees via Northern Ireland but was told they would be destroyed

www.theguardian.com

being killed? not a great outcome for them!

 

[philosophical]

The Republic of Ireland is the EU as far as the UK is concerned regarding one aspect of things.
That aspect being that the vote was for the UK to leave the EU.
Pretty straightforward.
Brexit voters going on about a United Ireland are tossers who only now seeing how things are unfolding are putting that into the mix in order to try to give their destructive action some meaning.

 

[bimble]

being killed? not a great outcome for them!

I think they get to stay in Italy , to stop them being killed.

 

[ska invita]

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