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The American mass shooting thread

So, ah! What exactly is an assault weapon then?
A military style weapon with a detachable magazine. Certain sort of gun nut goes bobo if you call their "modern sporting rifle 🙄" an Assualt rifle. Also really short barreled rifles can be called pistols🙄 if the stock is an "arm brace".
Gun nuts complain it's only targeting cosmetic features which is true although the cosmetic features is what attracts the sort of person you don't want armed.
 
they are Feral pigs that have no natural predators and can have several litters a year do extensive damage to crops and the ecosystem in Texas they hunt them from helicopters and blow them up with baited explosives and nobody cares as they are an invasive pest. It would be relatively simple to issue a licence for pest control and most pig hunters use a 7.62 nato round rather than 5.56 which is the usual round in an Ar15. Unfortunately, you actually need to know a little bit about guns if the aim is realistic gun control rather than an outright ban which is impossible in the US.

apparently something that looks like an M16 that can only shoot 90 rounds a minute is totally harmless compared to the military version that could should 300 rounds a minute:rolleyes:
this happened body armour an Ar15 m16 lookalike a pump action shotgun
and 3 handguns!
 
I wouldn't have thought they are necessary for deer, but American hunters claim they need them for wild pigs which are quite dangerous.

There's been a couple of times when I was hiking that I might have been happy to have a gun of some type when I found fresh cougar tracks. Bears and bison generally give you fair warning (unless you were dumb enough to not store food properly), but cougars not so much.
 
I've sometimes wished I had a gun when encountering wild dogs or wild boars when I've been hiking, but anyone who thinks a military-style assault rifle is the appropriate level of weaponry probably shouldn't be hunting.

The thing I hate is hunting from helicopters with large firearms. Where's the skill or challenge in that?

If you're going to hunt use something like this:

1616673871109.png

Atlatl hunter is first Missouri woman to take deer with ancient hunting tool (news-leader.com)
 
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Just feels slightly fucked that whenever shootings occur, there's always an outbreak of fevered gun chat on these threads. Not really connected with the shootings; just talking about guns. It's the same men every time - decent posters generally but misjudging it on these threads.

I'm not certain they're being that serious. It almost seems like a parody of American gun talk.
 
No civilian has any reason to own a firearm. They are just too unsafe for the populace to be trusted with. Only exceptions should be small bore maximum two shot shotguns used by farmers and exterminators for vermin control. Even those should be heavily licensed and controlled. Maybe they shouldn't even be in private hands at all and should be rented from government bodies.

I'm with Karl Marx on this one.

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”

If the proletariat are to truly be "a class for itself", then they should be armed. Some of them at least. Rather than being completely disarmed by the same bourgeois state apparatus that colludes with capital in their exploitation.

The other side in the class war already have a massive advantage. I see no benefit in extending that any further.

The current culture around the possession and safety of guns in the US should definitely be changed. But using the state to disarm the workers ain't the way. People aren't going to encouraged to take better care of guns and ammunition that way, and it hands an easy win to the right. I really do not understand this tendency among US liberals (and the misguided lefties who take their cues from them) to place themselves exactly where their opposition wants them to be.
 
I'm with Karl Marx on this one.

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”

If the proletariat are to truly be "a class for itself", then they should be armed. Some of them at least. Rather than being completely disarmed by the same bourgeois state apparatus that colludes with capital in their exploitation.

The other side in the class war already have a massive advantage. I see no benefit in extending that any further.

The current culture around the possession and safety of guns in the US should definitely be changed. But using the state to disarm the workers ain't the way. People aren't going to encouraged to take better care of guns and ammunition that way, and it hands an easy win to the right. I really do not understand this tendency among US liberals (and the misguided lefties who take their cues from them) to place themselves exactly where their opposition wants them to be.

After watching Hong Kong - where I'm still technically a resident, though I haven't been there since pre-pandemic - go from a relatively free society to an authoritarian police state in the space of less than 12 months, I'm not as sure as I used to be about my stance against civilian gun ownership.
 
There's been a couple of times when I was hiking that I might have been happy to have a gun of some type when I found fresh cougar tracks. Bears and bison generally give you fair warning (unless you were dumb enough to not store food properly), but cougars not so much.
Oh, you meant the other kind of cougar.
 
I'm with Karl Marx on this one.

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”

If the proletariat are to truly be "a class for itself", then they should be armed. Some of them at least. Rather than being completely disarmed by the same bourgeois state apparatus that colludes with capital in their exploitation.

The other side in the class war already have a massive advantage. I see no benefit in extending that any further.

The current culture around the possession and safety of guns in the US should definitely be changed. But using the state to disarm the workers ain't the way. People aren't going to encouraged to take better care of guns and ammunition that way, and it hands an easy win to the right. I really do not understand this tendency among US liberals (and the misguided lefties who take their cues from them) to place themselves exactly where their opposition wants them to be.

This is pure Ultra Leftism. In my area we have these brain dead Socialist gun clubs with their embarrassing soviet iconography and who post photos of their SKS carbines and Makarov pistols. It's wank material for Tankies.
Seriously, the Leftist pro gun lobby (who thankfully are very small) are basically on the same side of the argument as Trumpers, Proud Boys and the 3%' ters. That's a lousy place to be for any Progressive. It's the same as the Lexit crowd in England. They use ultra left, utopian reasoning to ally themselves with a cause that is owned the Right. The reasoning is flawed too. Even if , say, you wanted access to firearms to somehow combat the State, the State has access to an incredible array of advanced weaponry. What's an AR15 or shotgun going to do against a F35 Fighter jet? The deeply anarchronistic 2nd Amendment was written in a totally different era.
People want to own guns for no other reason than they are selfish and individualistic. It's same mentality as the anti mask and anti lockdown crowd.
We have horrendous crime and accident figures here as well as the fact that guns are used widely in suicides, particularly on men. That's appalling and any responsible government has a duty to keep its citizens safe, regardless of the fever dreams of toy town revolutionaries. I am glad that the Democrats are moving on this and seeking to introduce gun legislation. The overwhelming majority of active Left wing people here agree with that.
 
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This is pure Ultra Leftism. In my area we have these brain dead Socialist gun clubs with their embarrassing soviet iconography and who post photos of their SKS carbines and Makarov pistols. It's wank material for Tankies.
Seriously, the Leftist pro gun lobby (who thankfully are very small) are basically on the same side of the argument as Trumpers, Proud Boys and the 3%' ters. That's a lousy place to be for any Progressive. It's the same as the Lexit crowd in England. They use ultra left, utopian reasoning to ally themselves with a cause that is owned the Right.
We have horrendous crime and accident figures here as well as the fact that guns are used widely in suicides, particularly on men. That's appalling and any responsible government has a duty to keep its citizens safe, regardless of the fever dreams of toy town revolutionaries. I am glad that the Democrats are moving on this and seeking to introduce gun legislation.

P.S. There ain't gonna be a Revolution.

You embarrass yourself with your ignorance. Chapters of the Socialist Rifle Association have been involved in mutual aid efforts during the pandemic, as well as during the big Texan freeze. You do them all a disservice by slagging them off as a bunch of tankies. They are precisely the kind of organisations which might be capable of building the dual power structures necessary to be able to truly challenge capitalist hegemony. Workers organising themselves without needing the blessing of the state is a scary thing... if you're a capitalist or one of their lackeys.

The validity of a position has nothing to do with its popularity. Nor is its validity decided by who holds it. You call others utopian, yet you think the capitalists will just let themselves to be legislated out of existence? Politicians can be bought, and the corpos have deeper pockets than literally anyone else on the entire planet. Also, opposing membership an undemocratic neoliberal supra-state is not the preserve of right-wing headbangers, much as it might inconveniently complicate the thought-terminating cliches of certain Remainers.

The Democrats risk falling into the obvious culture war trap that the right are obviously itching for them to step in. Given past performance, I expect this latest legislation will do nothing noteworthy. Take the suicide thing for instance. Will the Democrats actually make any substantial efforts to address male suicide, beyond making everyone wait a bit longer for their guns? I predict that they won't, because the Dems don't care about ordinary Americans any more than the Republicans do. Private citizens don't and can't bribe them enough to care.

As for no revolution, got a functioning crystal ball, have you? Or are you just arrogant enough to think that history has ended?
 
This is pure Ultra Leftism. In my area we have these brain dead Socialist gun clubs with their embarrassing soviet iconography and who post photos of their SKS carbines and Makarov pistols. It's wank material for Tankies.
Seriously, the Leftist pro gun lobby (who thankfully are very small) are basically on the same side of the argument as Trumpers, Proud Boys and the 3%' ters. That's a lousy place to be for any Progressive. It's the same as the Lexit crowd in England. They use ultra left, utopian reasoning to ally themselves with a cause that is owned the Right. The reasoning is flawed too. Even if , say, you wanted access to firearms to somehow combat the State, the State has access to an incredible array of advanced weaponry. What's an AR15 or shotgun going to do against a F35 Fighter jet? The deeply anarchronistic 2nd Amendment was written in a totally different era.
People want to own guns for no other reason than they are selfish and individualistic. It's same mentality as the anti mask and anti lockdown crowd.
We have horrendous crime and accident figures here as well as the fact that guns are used widely in suicides, particularly on men. That's appalling and any responsible government has a duty to keep its citizens safe, regardless of the fever dreams of toy town revolutionaries. I am glad that the Democrats are moving on this and seeking to introduce gun legislation. The overwhelming majority of active Left wing people here agree with that.
frankly it shouldn't be beyond the wit of americans to do something about the inequality in their society, which would exert some influence on the crime figures. there are other countries with similar or greater access to guns which have a far lower murder rate. so it isn't guns as such that are the problem, but issues in american society. restricting access to guns won't do anything to solve these greater problems and will only be a plaster over gaping wounds.
 
I'm very glad we don't have firearms in the UK or rather American style spree shootings.

However I can't help but notice when the right protest in America and rock up with all their scary black guns the police response is very different to how they deal with other groups.
 
You embarrass yourself with your ignorance. Chapters of the Socialist Rifle Association have been involved in mutual aid efforts during the pandemic, as well as during the big Texan freeze. You do them all a disservice by slagging them off as a bunch of tankies. They are precisely the kind of organisations which might be capable of building the dual power structures necessary to be able to truly challenge capitalist hegemony. Workers organising themselves without needing the blessing of the state is a scary thing... if you're a capitalist or one of their lackeys.

The validity of a position has nothing to do with its popularity. Nor is its validity decided by who holds it. You call others utopian, yet you think the capitalists will just let themselves to be legislated out of existence? Politicians can be bought, and the corpos have deeper pockets than literally anyone else on the entire planet. Also, opposing membership an undemocratic neoliberal supra-state is not the preserve of right-wing headbangers, much as it might inconveniently complicate the thought-terminating cliches of certain Remainers.

The Democrats risk falling into the obvious culture war trap that the right are obviously itching for them to step in. Given past performance, I expect this latest legislation will do nothing noteworthy. Take the suicide thing for instance. Will the Democrats actually make any substantial efforts to address male suicide, beyond making everyone wait a bit longer for their guns? I predict that they won't, because the Dems don't care about ordinary Americans any more than the Republicans do. Private citizens don't and can't bribe them enough to care.

As for no revolution, got a functioning crystal ball, have you? Or are you just arrogant enough to think that history has ended?
TBF I think my version covered the same points but more economically :oldthumbsup:
 
I'm with Karl Marx on this one.

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”

If the proletariat are to truly be "a class for itself", then they should be armed. Some of them at least. Rather than being completely disarmed by the same bourgeois state apparatus that colludes with capital in their exploitation.

The other side in the class war already have a massive advantage. I see no benefit in extending that any further.

The current culture around the possession and safety of guns in the US should definitely be changed. But using the state to disarm the workers ain't the way. People aren't going to encouraged to take better care of guns and ammunition that way, and it hands an easy win to the right. I really do not understand this tendency among US liberals (and the misguided lefties who take their cues from them) to place themselves exactly where their opposition wants them to be.

Times have moved on from muskets, Marx (in relation to arms) and the wild west... surely?
 
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