The American mass shooting thread

[binka]

I realise everyone here has an axe to grind in some way and I might be a bit of a hypocrite but since when do people on U75 take the cop's version of events as fact? There is a touch of 'well he would say that wouldn't he?' I have no idea how gunshots outside and inside a building sound different but I would have thought screaming kids might have aroused some suspicion that maybe his initial assessment was wrong

 

[not-bono-ever]

i dont think it is taking the cops side tbh, its trying to rationalise the horror of this and wade through the lies and diversionary finger pointing.

 

[editor]

I realise everyone here has an axe to grind in some way and I might be a bit of a hypocrite but since when do people on U75 take the cop's version of events as fact? There is a touch of 'well he would say that wouldn't he?' I have no idea how gunshots outside and inside a building sound different but I would have thought screaming kids might have aroused some suspicion that maybe his initial assessment was wrong

You are aware that the school is fucking huge with over 3,000 pupils enrolled? It's not like some little school where a single cop - or anyone else - can see everything at once.

Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School - Wikipedia

 

[Pickman's model]

I realise everyone here has an axe to grind in some way and I might be a bit of a hypocrite but since when do people on U75 take the cop's version of events as fact? There is a touch of 'well he would say that wouldn't he?' I have no idea how gunshots outside and inside a building sound different but I would have thought screaming kids might have aroused some suspicion that maybe his initial assessment was wrong

Which cop? The cop boss who slagged down the cop or the cop who has been vilified? Or do you even know what's been said by yer man's boss? Who is saying stuff which makes sense and who is covering their arse?

 

[not-bono-ever]

"cops are workers too"

/

 

[Treacle Toes]

Just heard Trump saying that he would have run in there even without a weapon... Agent fucking Orange.

I realise everyone here has an axe to grind in some way and I might be a bit of a hypocrite but since when do people on U75 take the cop's version of events as fact? There is a touch of 'well he would say that wouldn't he?' I have no idea how gunshots outside and inside a building sound different but I would have thought screaming kids might have aroused some suspicion that maybe his initial assessment was wrong

I don't think it's a case of anyone taking a cop's side or naively believing their story tbh. For me it's a rightful sneer to the nasty, macho, wankery that has come out from the 'If I were there crowd', and a necessary cynical response to those that are using this guard and his actions/decisions literally as shield to hide behind instead of doing what they need to do and look at gun laws.

His story is as believable as everyone else's. He was there afterall.

 

[binka]

Just heard Trump saying that he would have run in there even without a weapon... Agent fucking Orange.



I don't think it's a case of anyone taking a cop's side or naively believing their story tbh. For me it's a rightful sneer to the nasty, macho, wankery that has come out from the 'If I were there crowd', and a necessary cynical response to those that are using this guard and his actions/decisions literally as shield to hide behind instead of doing what they need to do and look at gun laws.

His story is as believable as everyone else's. He was there afterall.

I think some are naively believing his story "sounds very believable to me" comment above for example. I do think they're all covering their arses, the cop on the ground, his bosses, everyone. I don't actually believe his story but I don't suppose that matters any more. You're right there is a lot of macho wankery and I've just seen Trumps comments on the news and he's a joke. And I agree certain interests will use his questionable actions to avoid having to tackle the issue of gun control.

I haven't changed my mind though, I think he should have been in there to challenge the gunman for reasons already gone over a million times

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I realise everyone here has an axe to grind in some way and I might be a bit of a hypocrite but since when do people on U75 take the cop's version of events as fact? There is a touch of 'well he would say that wouldn't he?' I have no idea how gunshots outside and inside a building sound different but I would have thought screaming kids might have aroused some suspicion that maybe his initial assessment was wrong

I think its dangerous to automatically believe any point of view without first finding the facts. That way lies a kind of knee-jerk acceptance of any old propaganda, as long as it agrees with previously conceived notions. You see a lot of this in the Trump camp, but I don't see the left as immune by any means.

 

[binka]

I think its dangerous to automatically believe any point of view without first finding the facts. That way lies a kind of knee-jerk acceptance of any old propaganda, as long as it agrees with previously conceived notions. You see a lot of this in the Trump camp, but I don't see the left as immune by any means.

I think everyone's guilty of that including me

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I think everyone's guilty of that including me

Me too.

 

[dylanredefined]

Just heard Trump saying that he would have run in there even without a weapon... Agent fucking Orange.



.

When was the last time he ran anywhere?

 

[scifisam]

I think some are naively believing his story "sounds very believable to me" comment above for example. I do think they're all covering their arses, the cop on the ground, his bosses, everyone. I don't actually believe his story but I don't suppose that matters any more. You're right there is a lot of macho wankery and I've just seen Trumps comments on the news and he's a joke. And I agree certain interests will use his questionable actions to avoid having to tackle the issue of gun control.

I haven't changed my mind though, I think he should have been in there to challenge the gunman for reasons already gone over a million times

So I'm "naively" believing this cop (I find his story believable, yeah, but that's not quite the same thing),while you believing his boss isn't naive at all (you clearly do believe his boss if you are so certain that the school cop should have gone in), and I have an axe to grind? What's going to be next on your list of petty insults? Fuck off you total arsehole.

 

[binka]

So I'm "naively" believing this cop (I find his story believable, yeah, but that's not quite the same thing),while you believing his boss isn't naive at all (you clearly do believe his boss if you are so certain that the school cop should have gone in), and I have an axe to grind? What's going to be next on your list of petty insults? Fuck off you total arsehole.

My post wasn't all about you you know. I said everyone has an axe to grind I wasn't refering to you specifically. And I didn't say I believed his boss I clearly said he was covering his own arse. I quoted you because the cop comes out with a story and you instantly said it's "very believable" - I'm guessing you don't make a habit of always believing a policeman's version of events I just find it interesting you did on this occasion

 

[not-bono-ever]

One aspect - and I dont know the specifics of this county - is that there can be a huge variance in the levels of training given to county deputies across the states- they should have around the same basic training though - not so sure about CPD. it was Coral Springs PD that piled into the School apparently after finding a bunch of sheriffs deputies still outside the school when they rolled up. The sheriffs dept is usually a wider role and wider reach and is political- the more metro PD are likely to have a more structured training and setup. not sure how this affects this scenario but worth bearing in mind.

 

[Ax^]

Just heard Trump saying that he would have run in there even without a weapon... Agent fucking Orange.

but the bone spurs that keeped him out of Vietnam..

 

[scifisam]

My post wasn't all about you you know. I said everyone has an axe to grind I wasn't refering to you specifically. And I didn't say I believed his boss I clearly said he was covering his own arse. I quoted you because the cop comes out with a story and you instantly said it's "very believable" - I'm guessing you don't make a habit of always believing a policeman's version of events I just find it interesting you did on this occasion

Yeah, you said everyone - that does include me. I know you said that the boss is covering his own arse, but you say that at the same time as going along with the boss's version of events.

I find his story believable because it fits with what little we know (including the four minutes) and makes more sense from a personality POV, even including the typical traits of bad cops. I have already said this, you know.

When people say they find it "interesting" that someone has said something they're generally implying that the speaker had some agenda. I genuinely have no idea what agenda I'm supposed to have here, except that I probably used it to grind my axe.

 

[Ax^]

without giving american cops to much credit..



is it not normal to set a perimeter and call for military equipped swat team

go to show some reason for it be around

rather than

"You seen Die Hard?"

 

[not-bono-ever]

I think it used to be the case, but with the explosion of school shootings, the mob handed tooled up approach seems to be more commonp lace

 

[Ax^]

so one school cop going full rambo is quite unlikely

 

[Treacle Toes]

When was the last time he ran anywhere?

but the bone spurs that keeped him out of Vietnam..

 

[not-bono-ever]

dunno aboiut the US but ( and i will be corrected on this im sure) in the UK that you shouldnt put yourself in obvious danger, after all if you are armed, then you can make a difference but only when you are aware of what is going on and can use your weaponry effectively

 

[editor]

Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

It's going to be interesting to see the face-off between the old establishments and kids who have been online all their lives

 

[mojo pixy]

I was raised with guns. My first gun was given to me at age seven. Practice all you want, hand guns just are not very accurate over distances. My great uncle could out shoot me with his pistol vs my rifle, but he was a retired Admiral.

I know it's a minor point but you seem to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand handguns aren't very accurate over distances. Then saying that actually in the hands of someone with a lot of practice, a handgun can be pretty accurate; more accurate than a rifle in the hands of a less practiced shooter, as you point out. This chimes with my own experience of shooting rifles and pistols btw, which is why I wanted to mention it.

Of course handguns aren't really meant for shooting over more than a couple of hundred metres anyway, so if you mean really long distances (1km+) then of course a handgun won't do as well as a rifle, but I don't think in this particular case the campus cop was ever meant to snipe with his sidearm.

Anyway. Guns.

 

[8ball]

Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

Paralympics SH3 classification.

 

[8ball]

Of course handguns aren't really meant for shooting over more than a couple of hundred metres anyway...

Couple of hundred metres away?

 

[Pickman's model]

Couple of hundred metres away?

 

[likesfish]

without giving american cops to much credit..



is it not normal to set a perimeter and call for military equipped swat team



"You seen Die Hard?"

thing is the tactic that police use after Columbine is you confront the shooter your not dealing with a hardened killer you're dealing with somebody throwing a tantrum with a gun if you wait the scum continues to kill till they run out of ammo or get stopped.
now finding the POS might be difficult but waiting achieves fuck all

 

[editor]

'Trained to seek cover'
Mr Peterson said he had originally "received a call of firecrackers".

Only when he ran towards the sound, he said, did he realise it was gunshots.

Broward Sheriff's Office had trained him to seek cover and assess the situation in the event of outdoor gunfire, his lawyer said. Mr Peterson did so, and then told the sheriff's office he had heard shots, prompting a "Code Red" lockdown of the school campus.

When police arrived, he told them he thought the gunman was outside - a belief backed up by "radio transmissions [which] indicated that there was a gunshot victim in the area of the football field," Mr Peterson said.

Florida school officer defends his actions

 

[8ball]

Florida school officer defends his actions

Will be quite a storm if his version of events turns out to be true.

Won’t affect Trump, though, sadly. The truth has no bearing for him whatsoever.