The American mass shooting thread

[agricola]

The lack of Bangs would be a good indication as would the desperate attempts to clear it as he waddled his fat arse over to him.

So basically you are saying that the cop could have stopped him after he had shot everyone.

 

[Spymaster]

Let's say he ran in, guns blazing! He probably would of just accidentally shot up more students.

Why? Presumably he's been trained to use his weapon. I'm not convinced that armed security at schools is the way forward and the problem certainly needs addressing at a far more fundamental level, but if you're prepared to take on a job, get paid for doing that job, then run away when it comes time to act, you are an incompetent failure.

 

[dylanredefined]

So basically you are saying that the cop could have stopped him after he had shot everyone.

Might have stopped him earlier, might have been killed trying as it was he did nothing and deserves to be labelled a coward.

 

[Archimage]

I was raised with guns. My first gun was given to me at age seven. Practice all you want, hand guns just are not very accurate over distances. My great uncle could out shoot me with his pistol vs my rifle, but he was a retired Admiral.

 

[agricola]

Why? Presumably he's been trained to use his weapon. I'm not convinced that armed security at schools is the way forward and the problem certainly needs addressing at a far more fundamental level, but if you're prepared to take on a job, get paid for doing that job, then run away when it comes time to act, you are an incompetent failure.

If he was told to go in and tackle him you'd have a point. If he was told to remain on scene and talk his more heavily armed colleagues in, I don't think you do.

 

[Spymaster]

If he was told to go in and tackle him you'd have a point. If he was told to remain on scene and talk his more heavily armed colleagues in, I don't think you do.

That's fair. Do we know what his instructions were?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Since he was outgunned then I wonder if the next step will be to give security guards heavier weapons. As well as arming teachers obviously.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was raised with guns. My first gun was given to me at age seven. Practice all you want, hand guns just are not very accurate over distances. My great uncle could out shoot me with his pistol vs my rifle, but he was a retired Admiral.

probably had six inch guns beyond the horizon he could summon to his aid if you showed signs of being troublesome

 

[agricola]

That's fair. Do we know what his instructions were?

Not that I am aware of (at least in terms of the radio traffic relating to the incident), and it does seem to be a bit of a glaring ommission at this stage - especially as his former boss and his current President have been throwing allegations of cowardice around. That the other local cops who turned up didn't go in either might mean that all the local cops were being told something other than "immediately confront the attacker"; it just remains to be seen what was said and who was saying it (the neighbouring county were not on the same radio link and did go in when they turned up).

 

[scifisam]

The lack of Bangs would be a good indication as would the desperate attempts to clear it as he waddled his fat arse over to him.

Why would lack of bangs indicate a jammed rifle rather than all the other potential reasons? Why wouldn't other students run away too?

It doesn't sound like there's enough info for the serious accusations of cowardice and dereliction of duty. Those accusations will ruin his life and his family's lives so shouldn't be thrown around just on a hunch. You know, like Trump is doing.

 

[dylanredefined]

Why would lack of bangs indicate a jammed rifle rather than all the other potential reasons? Why wouldn't other students run away too?

It doesn't sound like there's enough info for the serious accusations of cowardice and dereliction of duty. Those accusations will ruin his life and his family's lives so shouldn't be thrown around just on a hunch. You know, like Trump is doing.

As has been pointed out the response changed from establish a cordon to confront the gunmen. He didn't need permission to go in. He didn't do anything while kids died.

 

[scifisam]

As has been pointed out the response changed from establish a cordon to confront the gunmen. He didn't need permission to go in. He didn't do anything while kids died.

But you seem to be saying that based on guesswork, not actual evidence.

 

[Yossarian]

For all we know, he could have thought he was already being shot at. The shooter's plan was apparently to shoot at fleeing students from a third-floor window - police said there were signs that he had spent time trying to shoot out the windows in a third-floor before he gave up, dropped his gun, and left. They said the windows were unlocked so it was lucky he didn't just try to open them by hand...

 

[not-bono-ever]

So it’s the cops fault that children died then ? Fucking hell

 

[agricola]

As has been pointed out the response changed from establish a cordon to confront the gunmen. He didn't need permission to go in. He didn't do anything while kids died.

The bit you are wilfully missing is that he really might have been told not to go in, that it was more important that he told the responding officers what he could see and hear whilst containing the building.

We do not know what he was told, or even what he did or didn't do, so to go off on one and call him a coward like Trump and the bloke who bears overall responsibility for the department concerned seems to be a bit daft.

 

[Pickman's model]

The bit you are wilfully missing is that he really might have been told not to go in, that it was more important that he told the responding officers what he could see and hear whilst containing the building.

We do not know what he was told, or even what he did or didn't do, so to go off on one and call him a coward like Trump and the bloke who bears overall responsibility for the department concerned seems to be a bit daft.

not to mention that dylanredefined would find something to hit yer man with whatever he'd done

 

[editor]

Might have stopped him earlier, might have been killed trying as it was he did nothing and deserves to be labelled a coward.

So based on your uninformed ruminations, you feel it's OK to label him a coward, yes?

 

[Treacle Toes]

As has been pointed out the response changed from establish a cordon to confront the gunmen. He didn't need permission to go in. He didn't do anything while kids died.

Whereas you regardless would have ran in there all Rambo like and saved the day...you are 100% sure of that speaking from the luxury of never having to actually experience it. Well done. You are a hero in your own head at least.

 

[Pickman's model]

Whereas you regardless would have ran in there all Rambo like and saved the day...you are 100% sure of that speaking from the luxury of never having to actually experience it. Well done. You are a hero in your own head at least.

Dylanredefined I've been waiting for you, cruz said...

 

[dylanredefined]

So based on your uninformed ruminations, you feel it's OK to label him a coward, yes?

Aaron Feis, football coach who shielded students from Florida shooter, died 'a hero' - CNN well since unarmed people did something an armed experinced law enforcement officer did nothing except stay out of the line of fire

 

[dylanredefined]

Whereas you regardless would have ran in there all Rambo like and saved the day...you are 100% sure of that speaking from the luxury of never having to actually experience it. Well done. You are a hero in your own head at least.

No ,but, at least I would have tried to earn my pay.

 

[Pickman's model]

Aaron Feis, football coach who shielded students from Florida shooter, died 'a hero' - CNN well since unarmed people did something an armed experinced law enforcement officer did nothing except stay out of the line of fire

Yeh at least yer man was braver than you, you froth about it now but you've been careful to stay 1000s of miles out of the line of fire.

 

[Treacle Toes]

No ,but, at least I would have tried to earn my pay.

 

[Pickman's model]

No ,but, at least I would have tried to earn my pay.

Dancing around shouting 'don't panic' like a superannuated corporal jones

 

[not-bono-ever]

Hero
Coward

Is it 1916 again ?

 

[Pickman's model]

Hero
Coward

Is it 1916 again ?

Will be in a couple of hours

 

[8ball]

If it was this guy's job to stop a shooter in the case of something like this, I don't see what's wrong with pointing it out if he didn't do it. If the actual cops came round and hung round outside the building I'm sure people would point that out too.

In both cases, the shooting could have been averted by the nutter not having a gun, of course, so I'm not sure how it makes the gun-lovers much capital by blaming this guy.

 

[dylanredefined]

Dancing around shouting 'don't panic' like a superannuated corporal jones

Still more than the donut munching coward did.

 

[Pickman's model]

Still more than the donut munching coward did.

We've already established you made no move to get within a thousand miles of the site making you a bigger coward

 

[Archimage]

I lived in North Hollywood when this happened: North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia
Just goes to show, hand guns are not affective against assault rifles.