The American mass shooting thread

[existentialist]

That is what he was paid to do though. At the first sign of opposition mass shooters tend to flee or top them selves. Mans a coward.

Thing is, it's all very well dividing the scenarios into gun/not gun. But if you take an (ex-)copper whose only real training is likely to have been shooting at an unarmed, or possibly pistol-armed, suspect and ask him to walk into a situation where someone's spraying bullets from a semi-automatic, can you really be surprised if he reacts in fear?

I'm only a lowly walt, but I remember chatting to some ex-services people I worked with who'd done the whole hostage scenario thing, and they were very clear about how different going into an enclosed space with people firing automatic weapons was from taking out shooters in open ground, or who were only armed with handguns. Arguably, you still weren't THAT likely to get hit, particularly if they were confused/amateurs/in the dark, but it definitely wasn't the sort of thing they were going to do a) without lots of training, b) without flash-bangs and all kinds of noise, c) without >1 of them, and d) without similar weapons.

 

[Pickman's model]

That is what he was paid to do though. At the first sign of opposition mass shooters tend to flee or top them selves. Mans a coward.

Do they? Do post up your source. Or is this just a load of flimsy beliefs on your part?

 

[wiskey]

Good work!

I was actually surprised that companies did favourable things for NRA members. Now I feel naive, but also wonder how many of their 5million members just bought into it for the perks.

 

[YouSir]

I was actually surprised that companies did favourable things for NRA members. Now I feel naive, but also wonder how many of their 5million members just bought into it for the perks.

Saw the other day that there are around 15m self-identifying NRA members - so people who count family memberships as their own or who just consider themselves supporters. Those 5m are pretty much the core who aren't purely in it for the perks. Article (forgot where I found it) also pointed out that it's one of the biggest membership organisations in the US - something people seem to forget when they try to label it purely as a corrupt lobbying group. Truth is it represents a sizeable demographic who earnestly identify with it's goals.

 

[wiskey]

Saw the other day that there are around 15m self-identifying NRA members - so people who count family memberships as their own or who just consider themselves supporters. Those 5m are pretty much the core who aren't purely in it for the perks. Article (forgot where I found it) also pointed out that it's one of the biggest membership organisations in the US - something people seem to forget when they try to label it purely as a corrupt lobbying group. Truth is it represents a sizeable demographic who earnestly identify with it's goals.

Ahh ok, when I read the 5million figure I did think that out of a population of 300million it was a lower percentage than I'd expected.

 

[binka]

Thing is, it's all very well dividing the scenarios into gun/not gun. But if you take an (ex-)copper whose only real training is likely to have been shooting at an unarmed, or possibly pistol-armed, suspect and ask him to walk into a situation where someone's spraying bullets from a semi-automatic, can you really be surprised if he reacts in fear?

I'm only a lowly walt, but I remember chatting to some ex-services people I worked with who'd done the whole hostage scenario thing, and they were very clear about how different going into an enclosed space with people firing automatic weapons was from taking out shooters in open ground, or who were only armed with handguns. Arguably, you still weren't THAT likely to get hit, particularly if they were confused/amateurs/in the dark, but it definitely wasn't the sort of thing they were going to do a) without lots of training, b) without flash-bangs and all kinds of noise, c) without >1 of them, and d) without similar weapons.

I think I agree with those who call the copper a coward. He took the assignment knowing his job would be risk free for 99.99% of the time, and he also knew the worst case scenario would be a school shooting where he would be expected to engage the shooter without waiting for backup.

 

[mojo pixy]

You had one job...

 

[existentialist]

I think I agree with those who call the copper a coward. He took the assignment knowing his job would be risk free for 99.99% of the time, and he also knew the worst case scenario would be a school shooting where he would be expected to engage the shooter without waiting for backup.

There's a difference between knowing there's a one in 10,000 chance of having to do something, and actually getting to put your life on the line and do it. Those guys that do hostage release are in that fire house week in week out, training, practicing, and learning not to shit themselves and panic when some balaclava-clad loon swings an assault rifle in their direction. Yer man's training has probably been choosing doughnuts in Krispy Kreme and a couple of hours on the range shooting paper targets every fortnight. Perhaps it shouldn't be like that, but it's not entirely him to blame.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

the victim blaming around the Parkland Shooting (countless r/w fucktards convinced that the newly activised youngsters are actors and / or in the pay of Soros) is a carbon copy of the Grenfell victim blaming (they want mansions and shouldn't be here anyway)

It's a standard reaction we should now expect to see whenever people suffer catastrophe: conservative allies will round on them with the most disgusting lies and smears in defence of an elite they claim to oppose.

 

[binka]

There's a difference between knowing there's a one in 10,000 chance of having to do something, and actually getting to put your life on the line and do it. Those guys that do hostage release are in that fire house week in week out, training, practicing, and learning not to shit themselves and panic when some balaclava-clad loon swings an assault rifle in their direction. Yer man's training has probably been choosing doughnuts in Krispy Kreme and a couple of hours on the range shooting paper targets every fortnight. Perhaps it shouldn't be like that, but it's not entirely him to blame.

I think there's a difference between a hostage situation and this which is why the protocol for tackling a school shooter is different. I'm sure he regrets his actions and it will haunt him for the rest of his life. I don't blame him for the deaths, that's entirely on the cunt doing the shooting, but he had been a cop for 30 years knew exactly what was expected of him but he failed to do it

 

[Cloo]

It astonishes me that it can actually be legal for a body such as the NRA to have the lobbying power that it does. I wonder how it stands in the hierarchy of lobbying power in the US. Presumably oil industry also has a lot of clout, not sure who else would be at the top?

 

[Archimage]

He's not the only one.
Additional deputies did not enter Florida high school during shooting: report

 

[spring-peeper]

It astonishes me that it can actually be legal for a body such as the NRA to have the lobbying power that it does. I wonder how it stands in the hierarchy of lobbying power in the US. Presumably oil industry also has a lot of clout, not sure who else would be at the top?

sugar?

 

[twentythreedom]

Fag firms too

 

[agricola]

I think there's a difference between a hostage situation and this which is why the protocol for tackling a school shooter is different. I'm sure he regrets his actions and it will haunt him for the rest of his life. I don't blame him for the deaths, that's entirely on the cunt doing the shooting, but he had been a cop for 30 years knew exactly what was expected of him but he failed to do it

This line of thought does assume that he was trained to and and was actually told to go in and confront the shooter - whilst that may be policy, it does ignore the very real question of what he was actually told to do by the dispatch running the incident, something that the local Sheriff failed to mention (or at least has so far in the reports I have read) when damning him so publicly.

Given what likely happened to the local 911 system as dozens / hundreds of people all tried to call 911 at once, having someone there in direct radio contact with the dispatch and the responding officers and who could provide updates from the scene (and who could ID the shooter) might well have been more valuable to the people running the incident than attempting to confront the shooter by himself. That the other local deputies didn't go in either (at least according to Archimages' link above) does suggest that they at least were told not to go in.

 

[CRI]

This rather says it all . . .

 

[likesfish]

The NRA does give a lot of useful perks if your a regular shooter part of it's not one step back on gun rights can be explained by new york states attempt to register and then confiscate "assault weapons"

 

[Poi E]

Until you've been under or near fire casting judgement on this guy is pretty fucking bold.

 

[Kaka Tim]

its fucking infantile publically pillorying some poor bastard because they failed to be a real life bruce willis (cos - y'know "real life")- but, thanks to the orange bollock, thats pretty much the level of debate.

 

[CRI]

Interesting piece on how disinformation on social media hampered local reporting of the incident. Aim was to discredit the Miami Herald and the survivors. Don't think your average Joe would put this much effort in for shits and giggles, so who?

Hoax attempts against Miami Herald augur brewing war over fake, real news

In the first incident, a perpetrator used a software tool to create two fake tweets that looked like they came from the account of Alex Harris, a Herald reporter preparing tributes to the slain students. One fake tweet asked for photos of dead bodies at the school and another asked if the shooter was white.

The reporter almost immediately began getting angry messages.

“It was hampering our ability to cover this terrible tragedy in our own backyard because we’re having to deal with the backlash,” said Aminda Marques, executive editor of The Herald.

In a second incident, someone again used a software tool to create a phony Miami Herald story — in the high tension following the Parkland shooting — saying that a Miami-Dade middle school faced threats of “potentially catastrophic events” on upcoming dates, indicating that a new mass shooting was in the offing.

“The primary thing that it did was create fear among a population that was already terrified. It was just on the heels of this mass shooting,” Marques said.

 

[dylanredefined]

Do they? Do post up your source. Or is this just a load of flimsy beliefs on your part?

Columbia shooters topped themselves on being confronted.
That's when police changed training from cordon to confront.
Virginia tech shooter topped themselves as police closed in.

 

[Pickman's model]

Columbia shooters topped themselves on being confronted.
That's when police changed training from cordon to confront.
Virginia tech shooter topped themselves as police closed in.

could you tell me about the outcomes of the other 1622 in the last 1900 days?

 

[Yossarian]

Turns out the department protocol didn't require him to enter the building, it just said he could do so without a supervisor's approval if he decided that was the best course of action. I don't know what "real time intelligence" he had apart from "shots can be heard coming from somewhere."

 

[dylanredefined]

This line of thought does assume that he was trained to and and was actually told to go in and confront the shooter - whilst that may be policy, it does ignore the very real question of what he was actually told to do by the dispatch running the incident, something that the local Sheriff failed to mention (or at least has so far in the reports I have read) when damning him so publicly.

Given what likely happened to the local 911 system as dozens / hundreds of people all tried to call 911 at once, having someone there in direct radio contact with the dispatch and the responding officers and who could provide updates from the scene (and who could ID the shooter) might well have been more valuable to the people running the incident than attempting to confront the shooter by himself. That the other local deputies didn't go in either (at least according to Archimages' link above) does suggest that they at least were told not to go in.

Well since the shooter killed a bunch of people and then escaped. Not a lot of use.

 

[dylanredefined]

View attachment 128502

could you tell me about the outcomes of the other 1622 in the last 1900 days?

A quick glance very few were resolved by inaction by cops.

 

[Pickman's model]

A quick glance very few were resolved by inaction by cops.

yeh. now, your claim about at the first sign of opposition, which is what i was asking about...

At the first sign of opposition mass shooters tend to flee or top them selves.

 

[not-bono-ever]

It’s a gone a bit First blood on here hasn’t it ? Most places in m the states have active shooter policies in place theses days - none of them have tackling the shooter anywhere but bottom of the list of options, condoning running into packed buildings to take out an unknown is frankly stupid macho toss.

 

[likesfish]

If you have a gun dithering about outside does nothing useful . He was an armed guard that means guarding people. The murder spree lasted 6 minutes it wasn’t Rambo it was a pathetic man child he had to confront other deputies have done the same and the school shooter ran off and topped themselves.

 

[Archimage]

 

[not-bono-ever]

It was an unknown situation outside a scant fact or two. This is basic risk management.