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The American mass shooting thread

About 1 in every 6 Americans takes some sort of psychiatric prescription medication. That the mass shooters have gone to doctors or chemists for help with mental distress is no kind of a revelation is it.
Also women much higher prescription rate than men and yet, weirdly, drastically underrepresented in the mass shootings stakes.
Right. But if, as Squrrelp seems (without me checking his facts and sources) to be evidencing, 100% of school shooters in the US were on mental health medication, why isn’t that worth discussing at least?
 
Right. But if, as Squrrelp seems (without me checking his facts and sources) to be evidencing, 100% of school shooters in the US were on mental health medication, why isn’t that worth discussing at least?
"evidencing" isn't the word I'd be using.

"Insinuating" might be nearer the mark.
 
"evidencing" isn't the word I'd be using.

"Insinuating" might be nearer the mark.
So you don’t believe him. I’m possibly with you there given his performance here.

But if it’s true it’s worth exploring, no?

The availability of firearms in the US is only one factor isn’t it? There’s certainly a discussion to be had regarding what motivates a kid to pick up the assault rifle and murder his schoolmates. It doesn’t happen anywhere else with anything approaching the same frequency.
 
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in a 'we should really examine why late capitalist society produces such a huge amount of mentally unwell people' yes.

in a 'how does the pill make them do the murders what they have done?' way no. Chemtrails bollocks. Tell me why I don't like mondays
Agreed.

Is this particular capitalist society producing more mentally unwell people than those before it?
 
Agreed. Is this particular capitalist society producing more mentally unwell people than those before it?
or is it that we measure it more accurately these days while treating it inadequately due to a more atomised structure of social relations that doesn't allow for the sort of 'in house' clan/club/tribe care that would have 'managed' these problems ? fuck knows. The two world wars, rationing and generalised harshness of life BITD tends to skew the figures/perceptions ' I recon . As blackadder says in WW1 'who would have noticed another madman around here?
 
A google for the keywords led me straight to Infowars, where of course Alex Jones is explaining how the Mainstream Media refuse to tell you the truth cos they're funded by big pharma etc. Also who wants to buy some 'max brain power' pills on special offer. :D
 
So you don’t believe him. I’m possibly with you there given his history.

But if it’s true it’s worth exploring, no?
Well, it's a pretty in-depth area, and I suspect there's a lot more invective around than fact.

I think it goes without saying that anyone who is willing to take a weapon and kill a large number of other people in these circumstances probably has something wrong with their thinking. It's not a huge leap on from there to surmise that some of those people may have sought treatment, and ended up on medication for their problem. There are many arguments to be had as to the efficacy of those medications, and there is a long history of "Prozac made me do it"-type claims, most of which are impossible to directly evidence.

There is some evidence to suggest that suicide risk, in particular, is somewhat increased after people commence on antidepressant medications, and that has been seized upon by the usual, ah, "special interest groups" as evidence that these drugs have murderous potential, but the likeliest reason is that people often find their motivation levels rise after commencing on ADs, quite often before their mood begins to lift...so you now have the combination of improved motivation and low mood - which would explain the potential increase in suicide attempts. Although it is possible that the picture is far more complex than that, especially given the role of things like placebo effect in medications of this type.

One thing that is definitely less than desirable is the reliance on medication alone. NICE guidelines in the UK recommend a combination of antidepressant treatment and talking therapies, but most GPs don't have access to the latter, and that's that - sadly, most patients on an AD prescription in the UK aren't really monitored or reviewed routinely unless they happen to have a particularly proactive and psych-aware GP.

However, squirrelp's ramblings are irrelevant to all of this. He's rushed off to Google and typed in "prove to me everyone who shot up a school was on psych meds" and grabbed the first link he saw which, probably without even reading it, he's posted up here.

As others have pointed out, the list includes people who weren't, as far as we know, on any kind of medication. And the list, which appears to be quite selective and from a group whose interest is in claiming a link between psychiatric medication and shootings, doesn't really tell us anything about causal factors. As others have pointed out, why does it have to be the medications that were responsible for the shootings - maybe it was the psychiatric condition the meds had been prescribed to treat? Or (more likely) the underlying social background and pathology of the people who committed the shootings.

But, for me, the real issue is that this looks very much like a continuation of the lazy tendency to "other" people with mental health conditions, and squirrelp, in trying to make this point, is using a cheap - but also extremely costly - trick to make his point.

We are fucking appalling at looking after people with mental health problems. We have reduced treatment almost to the absurd - we bung them some pills and tell them to get on with it, and we reserve the more involved interventions only for after-the-fact situations where they've been scaring the horses. Try and get an admission to an acute mental health ward because you fear that you are going to make an attempt on your own life, and you'll be lucky to be admitted; hell, if your subsequent suicide attempt isn't credible enough you'll probably be sent home.

Meanwhile, the press continue to monster anyone with a "scary" mental health condition, and completely ignore the 99+% of those suffering in silence, with the result that the popular perception of mental illness is still the "loony psycho", optionally with weapons, who's going to kill us all in our beds. And idiots like squirrelp both swallow, and contribute to, this picture.
 
The loons point won't be about how capitalism produces mental illness, its about how big pharma produces the appearance of mental illness to sell it's dodgy products. Don't give him too much credit after he argued shooting after shooting didn't actually happen or if they did they were not carried out by who we think.

(In fact, there probably are theories of them being carried out by people susceptible to programming because of big pharmas meds) .
 
Well, it's a pretty in-depth area, and I suspect there's a lot more invective around than fact.

I think it goes without saying that anyone who is willing to take a weapon and kill a large number of other people in these circumstances probably has something wrong with their thinking. It's not a huge leap on from there to surmise that some of those people may have sought treatment, and ended up on medication for their problem. There are many arguments to be had as to the efficacy of those medications, and there is a long history of "Prozac made me do it"-type claims, most of which are impossible to directly evidence.

There is some evidence to suggest that suicide risk, in particular, is somewhat increased after people commence on antidepressant medications, and that has been seized upon by the usual, ah, "special interest groups" as evidence that these drugs have murderous potential, but the likeliest reason is that people often find their motivation levels rise after commencing on ADs, quite often before their mood begins to lift...so you now have the combination of improved motivation and low mood - which would explain the potential increase in suicide attempts. Although it is possible that the picture is far more complex than that, especially given the role of things like placebo effect in medications of this type.

One thing that is definitely less than desirable is the reliance on medication alone. NICE guidelines in the UK recommend a combination of antidepressant treatment and talking therapies, but most GPs don't have access to the latter, and that's that - sadly, most patients on an AD prescription in the UK aren't really monitored or reviewed routinely unless they happen to have a particularly proactive and psych-aware GP.

However, squirrelp's ramblings are irrelevant to all of this. He's rushed off to Google and typed in "prove to me everyone who shot up a school was on psych meds" and grabbed the first link he saw which, probably without even reading it, he's posted up here.

As others have pointed out, the list includes people who weren't, as far as we know, on any kind of medication. And the list, which appears to be quite selective and from a group whose interest is in claiming a link between psychiatric medication and shootings, doesn't really tell us anything about causal factors. As others have pointed out, why does it have to be the medications that were responsible for the shootings - maybe it was the psychiatric condition the meds had been prescribed to treat? Or (more likely) the underlying social background and pathology of the people who committed the shootings.

But, for me, the real issue is that this looks very much like a continuation of the lazy tendency to "other" people with mental health conditions, and squirrelp, in trying to make this point, is using a cheap - but also extremely costly - trick to make his point.

We are fucking appalling at looking after people with mental health problems. We have reduced treatment almost to the absurd - we bung them some pills and tell them to get on with it, and we reserve the more involved interventions only for after-the-fact situations where they've been scaring the horses. Try and get an admission to an acute mental health ward because you fear that you are going to make an attempt on your own life, and you'll be lucky to be admitted; hell, if your subsequent suicide attempt isn't credible enough you'll probably be sent home.

Meanwhile, the press continue to monster anyone with a "scary" mental health condition, and completely ignore the 99+% of those suffering in silence, with the result that the popular perception of mental illness is still the "loony psycho", optionally with weapons, who's going to kill us all in our beds. And idiots like squirrelp both swallow, and contribute to, this picture.
Good post. Thanks.
 
Don't give him too much credit after he argued shooting after shooting didn't actually happen or if they did they were not carried out by who we think.
Ah, ok. I think I've missed a lot of this chap's output. He seems alright on the cricket threads.
 
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Ah, ok. I think I've missed a lot of this chap's output. He seems alright on the cricket threads.
He makes some pleasant, perfectly normal posts elsewhere on the boards. But he only has to hear the conspiraloonery dogwhistle, and bam! he's off into full holocaust-denial passive-aggressive tinfoil hatter playbook-following harrumphing charlatan-quoting mode. It's most peculiar.
 
Ah, ok. I think I've missed a lot of this chap's output.

It's pretty much just this over and over, plus links to scummy sites.

squirrelp said:
I think critical1 is right to be pretty suspicious of the Paris attacks.

my conclusion is that they were false flags.

What the main 'conspiracy' sites have not noticed though (although I emailed them) is how the Bataclan massacre was pulled off. Some of the Paris attacks might have been faked but the Bataclan was real and the eyewitness reports all genuine.

It's a ridiculously simple MO and highly disturbing.

And they used a very similar method for the Orlando shootings. The similarities between Orlando and the Bataclan are very pertinent.

I fear that the next step for the loons will be to hound those young people who have been speaking out.
 
Some twat on Twitter commenting that gun control doesn't help because there's been 'Loads of mass shootings in the UK by terrorists and others'.

So, I looked this up. I am 40 and there's been a grand total of three mass shootings in my lifetime, whereas the US is on double figures so far this year, IIRC. :facepalm:
 
The level of accepted denialism around the entire subject of gun control does in itself seem to raise warning flags as to the mental well being of the more virulent defenders themselves . It looks like for many in the US are firmly stuck in the first stage of the typical change curve.

Truly concerning situation that does not appear to be working itself out - just more entrenchment and rancour
 
The poor lad in this article - shot five times trying to shield other students. Looks like he's going to recover at least.

28055801_2216968471673601_5531992237216461019_n.jpg


Good interview on this page with a brother and sister who were survivors of the shooting. It's distressing, but encouraging to hear their and other voices angry as hell and not going to take it any more. Let's hope the grown ups take a lead from them.

Student used his body as human shield to protect classmates
 
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