The American mass shooting thread

[petee]

View attachment 324667

ratzinger (the guy what is in the van there) said more than that:

Which Pope said this?

Today, even more urgently than in the past, the International Community is required to make a decisive option for peace. At the economic level, it is vital to work to ensure that the economy is oriented to the service of

wherepeteris.com

other stripes of xian seem to agree

Shooting survivor shares why Christians need to offer more than thoughts and prayers

(RNS) — ‘If God’s answer to our prayers is one that requires personal sacrifice, are we willing to hear that?’ said Taylor Schumann, author of ‘When Thoughts and Prayers Aren't Enough.’

religionnews.com

'"thoughts and prayers" is a bullshit line used by posturing american politicians.

 

[Sasaferrato]

ratzinger (the guy what is in the van there) said more than that,

Which Pope said this?

Today, even more urgently than in the past, the International Community is required to make a decisive option for peace. At the economic level, it is vital to work to ensure that the economy is oriented to the service of

wherepeteris.com

other stripes of xian seem to agree

Shooting survivor shares why Christians need to offer more than thoughts and prayers

(RNS) — ‘If God’s answer to our prayers is one that requires personal sacrifice, are we willing to hear that?’ said Taylor Schumann, author of ‘When Thoughts and Prayers Aren't Enough.’

religionnews.com

'"thoughts and prayers" is a bullshit line used by posturing american politicians.

I blocked someone on FB today, after she called me a liar when I said that Brits neither needed or wanted firearms. 'OMG how fucking unsafe is that? You can't defend yourself'. She couldn't quite grasp the fact that a year's gun deaths in the UK are less than a day's gun deaths in the US.

 

[Raheem]

I think if you're a cop in an American town with a school in it, there's no excuse for not being prepared to deal with a school shooting.

There's the fact that you're very often paid next to fuck all.

 

[agricola]

Two months before the shooting, the town's police force had active shooter training, which they apparently ignored.

The Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District in Texas hosted active shooter training for its six-member police force two months prior to the massacre at Robb Elementary, based on the "Active Shooter Response for School-Based Law Enforcement" course from the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement, which explicitly states: "First responders to the active shooter scene will usually be required to place themselves in harm's way and display uncommon acts of courage to save the innocent."

The course manual also includes this sobering instruction: "A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field." The training makes clear the "first priority is to move in and confront the attacker."

It is "safer" and "preferable" to have a team of at least four officers move on a subject but, since "time is the number one enemy during active shooter response," even a single officer is expected to act, according to the training document.

Texas school shooting: Suspect's grandmother upgraded to good condition

Live updates on the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas.

abcnews.go.com

TBF the published quotes from that manual make it sound more hectoring than training, the sort of stirring yet useful-information-light talk that an infantryman in 1915 would have been told about going over the top against machine-guns and artillery.

 

[Dystopiary]

Saw something earlier comparing all the processes you have to go through in America before being able to get an abortion vs a lethal firearm.
Looks like gap's about to get much wider too.

 

[two sheds]

Video on reddit showing a 13-year-old boy getting refused in stores for drink, cigarettes and scratch cards then legally being sold a .22 rifle at a gun fair. Thirteen ffs.

 

[8ball]

Video on reddit showing a 13-year-old boy getting refused in stores for drink, cigarettes and scratch cards then legally being sold a .22 rifle at a gun fair. Thirteen ffs.

Good bit of lateral thinking, that lad.

Bet he was sorted for smokes, booze and scratchcards shortly afterward.

 

[NoXion]

There's the fact that you're very often paid next to fuck all.

Nope, US cops are handsomely compensated relatively speaking, plus they get gold-plated pensions that they have a hard time losing even if they straight up murder people.

 

[Raheem]

Nope, US cops are handsomely compensated relatively speaking, plus they get gold-plated pensions that they have a hard time losing even if they straight up murder people.

Nah, it depends. If you're in the FBI, it's one thing, but small town cops are often on shockingly low pay.

 

[A380]

Nope, US cops are handsomely compensated relatively speaking, plus they get gold-plated pensions that they have a hard time losing even if they straight up murder people.

Depends. Federal agencies aren’t bad, a bit better than the UK but then people have to move more. Bigger metro forces not that bad. Some rural forces ok but most not. This is why they have such a mush mash of levels of professionalism and competence.

 

[petee]

Nah, it depends. If you're in the FBI, it's one thing, but small town cops are often on shockingly low pay.

Police Officer Salary & Benefits - NYPD

https://nypd-lba.org/wp-content/uploads/securepdfs/2018/01/lt-pay-scale-180122.pdf

 

[krtek a houby]

I blocked someone on FB today, after she called me a liar when I said that Brits neither needed or wanted firearms. 'OMG how fucking unsafe is that? You can't defend yourself'. She couldn't quite grasp the fact that a year's gun deaths in the UK are less than a day's gun deaths in the US.

There's no reasoning with them at all. They won't budge an inch .

 

[Raheem]

Police Officer Salary & Benefits - NYPD

https://nypd-lba.org/wp-content/uploads/securepdfs/2018/01/lt-pay-scale-180122.pdf

The last word in small towns.

The starting pay in Opelousas LA is $13.50 an hour.

Opelousas police may get upgrade, more officers with $650,000 grant

Alderman Charles Cummings said there is a need for better response for gunshots that are being heard inside residential neighborhoods.

eu.dailyworld.com

 

[SpookyFrank]

There's the fact that you're very often paid next to fuck all.

So are American teachers but everyone seems to expect them to tool up and get stuck in. Can't think of a case where teachers abandoned kids or just locked them in with some muderous lunatic until some better paid teachers with sharper pencils arrived.

 

[likesfish]

The sort of cop who would go in guns blazing would be a horrible cop for the rest of the time.
School shootings happen in little quiet towns where the cops main issue is staying awake until the end of a shift.
The "school shooting training" involved a power point no exercise or shooting. Just somebody telling you it's time to man up and earn your pay Top RAF officer suggests suicide missions in terror fight would go as well as this brain fart

 

[High Voltage]

Prompted by the Park lands shooting where the police man didn't go in as his job required. Just as valid now.

Fast forward to 5 minutes of you don't want the back history of rule 303

Bottom line: if you're in this role and taking the pay do your job and if you die doing it, "nobody cares"

 

[krtek a houby]

There's no reasoning with them at all. They won't budge an inch .

Would just like to add, this was not meant as a throwaway, dismissive remark. And obviously they are many Americans trying to bring about change.

But over the course of a life and with numerous conversations with people in and from the country, it appears that guns are utterly, utterly ingrained in the culture and consciousness.

And since the advent of internet social discourse, attitudes have gotten more entrenched. Doubling down, aggression, whataboutery, threats, racism ... don't you dare even think about suggesting gun control, more checks etc.

It's hideously fucked up. Some have suggested over the years, why bother about it? It's not your country...

Sadly, what happens there influences other countries and other gun "enthusiasts". The NRA has its supporters outside of the US.

There's some right wing Americans (and Australians) in this neck of the woods who would be delighted if they could go around tooled up. Thankfully, that's a fantasy that will never happen.

 

[two sheds]

 

[bluescreen]

Is he trolling them? It comes to something when you can't really tell. Poe's law in action.

 

[two sheds]

Yep I think so, a final remark about how all the dead children appreciate the thoughts and prayers might have been good, but might have got him thrown out.

 

[Duncan2]

Yep I think so, a final remark about how all the dead children appreciate the thoughts and prayers might have been good, but might have got him thrown out.

It's not the sort of thing anyone would joke about in any way.he must have been sincere

 

[krtek a houby]

It's not the sort of thing anyone would joke about in any way.he must have been sincere

No, it's deadly serious. He said a lot without saying a lot. The applause was scattered... they weren't quite sure if he was genuinely with or against them.

 

[two sheds]

and the NRA twat he was talking about looked utterly confused so speaker got his message across.

 

[RedRedRose]

The "school shooting training" involved a power point no exercise or shooting.

The first 15 seconds, literally shows the commanding officer did active shooter training involving exercises.

 

[Pickman's model]

The first 15 seconds, literally shows the commanding officer did active shooter training involving exercises.

there are two police forces. the one the school district's, composed of six officers, who recently did undergo the training. their commander was lead on the day. the other force, the town's police department, composed of forty officers, who don't appear to have had the training. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/27/uvalde-police-school-chief/

 

[likesfish]

Fuck em then they knew what to do they'd had the training they didn't even fucking try.
Unless there's something amazing that comes out in the investigation they should all be sacked.

 

[Sasaferrato]

So are American teachers but everyone seems to expect them to tool up and get stuck in. Can't think of a case where teachers abandoned kids or just locked them in with some muderous lunatic until some better paid teachers with sharper pencils arrived.

Only in the most deviant of societies would schools be conducting 'shooter drills' and teachers be expected to put themselves in harms way because of school shooters.

The US is sick to its core, a parody of a civilised nation.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Would just like to add, this was not meant as a throwaway, dismissive remark. And obviously they are many Americans trying to bring about change.

But over the course of a life and with numerous conversations with people in and from the country, it appears that guns are utterly, utterly ingrained in the culture and consciousness.

And since the advent of internet social discourse, attitudes have gotten more entrenched. Doubling down, aggression, whataboutery, threats, racism ... don't you dare even think about suggesting gun control, more checks etc.

It's hideously fucked up. Some have suggested over the years, why bother about it? It's not your country...

Sadly, what happens there influences other countries and other gun "enthusiasts". The NRA has its supporters outside of the US.

There's some right wing Americans (and Australians) in this neck of the woods who would be delighted if they could go around tooled up. Thankfully, that's a fantasy that will never happen.

There is nothing wrong with shooting as a hobby.

If I want to shoot clays, there are two places nearby. If I want to shoot .22, there is a rifle club, so access to the hobby is there.

What isn't there is the ability to get a shotgun certificate of firearms license easily, and that is exactly as it should be.

 

[Cid]

I was thinking about the economics of school security and found this article quite interesting.

Texas issues grants for security totalling $100m every two years, and there's been a one-off grant totalling the same recently (I've skim read and may get details wrong). Thing is that equates to $69k for Uvalde CISD, which covers a student body of 4,100 enrolled over 9/10 schools. The article reckons a full camera setup alone comes in at around $20k, with secure lobbies at $345k for two. Before you even start on staffing; training costs, licensing costs... Unwillingness of badly paid, time-constrained teachers at a fucking elementary school to double up as armed security. I mean fuck.

And of course impact on student body when you're training kids how to avoid getting shot. When doors are locked and movements tightly monitored... keep windows small to avoid spend on bullet resistant glass. Armed security watching over students of colour. It's just deeply fucked up.

Look up Robb school on google maps. Its 'security fencing' looks little higher than 5ft or so. There's this expectation that schools be hardened, but - as with so many things in the US - the reality seems to be something else entirely. A handful of show schools, and thousands of others that just require you to hop a fence. The situation is incurable without major social and political change. And that looks less likely than ever.

 

[NoXion]

There is nothing wrong with shooting as a hobby.

If I want to shoot clays, there are two places nearby. If I want to shoot .22, there is a rifle club, so access to the hobby is there.

What isn't there is the ability to get a shotgun certificate of firearms license easily, and that is exactly as it should be.

I qualified for the Army Cadets shooting team while I was attending. It was great and I had a lot of fun firing live rounds, albeit highly supervised. I think the adult instructors did a very good job of impressing the dangers of even blank ammunition upon us unruly kids.