The American mass shooting thread

[8ball]

Do you have a link?

https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.1.pdf#:~:text=Many%20school%20shooters%20bullied%20people.%20The%20fact%20that,however%2C%20varied%20across%20the%20three%20types%20of%20shooters.

Think school shooters are usually bullied and unpopular? You're wrong.

The stereotypes surrounding the shootings are often very wrong.

www.vox.com

From the above:

"If there's anything that appears to link school shooters, it's problems with depression. The Secret Service and Department of Education report found that 78 percent had a history of suicide attempts or suicidal thoughts, and 61 percent had a documented history of feeling extremely depressed or desperate. Almost all — 98 percent — of school shooters had experienced or perceived some major loss prior to the attack."

 

[UnderOpenSky]

 

[agricola]

In practice this would probably just end up legitimising a whole swathe of right-wing militias. Militia patrols through 'rough areas' of towns... militia presence at polling booths. Just extrapolate from the state of US policing.

I don't think it would, if anything it would probably depoliticize them as every adult could join.

 

[story]

 

[story]

 

[8ball]

Thought this was interesting (though the reference to 'assault rifles' in the final paragraph gives me some concerns about the editing):

Shootings aren’t a sign America is ‘broken’. It’s working exactly as intended | Ryan Busse

I was a firearms exec for years. The industry used to adhere to self-imposed rules and norms – until gun makers and lobby groups like the NRA realized fear and extremism sold more guns

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ming]

Thought this was interesting (though the reference to 'assault rifles' in the final paragraph gives me some concerns about the editing):

Shootings aren’t a sign America is ‘broken’. It’s working exactly as intended | Ryan Busse

I was a firearms exec for years. The industry used to adhere to self-imposed rules and norms – until gun makers and lobby groups like the NRA realized fear and extremism sold more guns

www.theguardian.com

I know. That applies to Brexit, ‘relaxed regulatory environments’, culture wars, Murdoch, tax shelters, etc.

Started with Hayek and his Mont Pelerin Society cunts and now here we are.

 

[8ball]

I know. That applies to Brexit, ‘relaxed regulatory environments’, culture wars, Murdoch, tax shelters, etc.

Started with Hayek and his Mont Pelerin Society cunts and now here we are.

Not sure what you mean about culture wars, but with you re: the other connections.

 

[spring-peeper]

Thought this was interesting (though the reference to 'assault rifles' in the final paragraph gives me some concerns about the editing):

Shootings aren’t a sign America is ‘broken’. It’s working exactly as intended | Ryan Busse

I was a firearms exec for years. The industry used to adhere to self-imposed rules and norms – until gun makers and lobby groups like the NRA realized fear and extremism sold more guns

www.theguardian.com

Good read, thanks for sharing!!!

 

[Ming]

Not sure what you mean about culture wars, but with you re: the other connections.

Just divide to conquer divide to rule stuff the right uses. It's more prevelant in the US. Issues like abortion, gun control. UK stuff is more benefit cheats, nationalism, Nigel Farage and his shite. That kind of crap.

 

[krtek a houby]

Reading this excellent book at the moment (recommended by another urbanite, iirc) gives more insights into the "policing" of black (and other minority) communities and how the system has always been stacked against the people. How slavery gave way to peonage and slave patrols became cops, how cops are trigger happy and inherently racist and so on.

Unlike Douglas A Blackmon's fascinating Slavery By Another Name, which covers some similar historical ground, this book gives the people and community activists a voice and they share their experiences and hopes with the reader. There's a lot of horror in there, but there's also a glimmer of hope.

 

[8ball]

Just divide to conquer divide to rule stuff the right uses. It's more prevelant in the US. Issues like abortion, gun control. UK stuff is more benefit cheats, nationalism, Nigel Farage and his shite. That kind of crap.

That sounds a bit like the right is the only side fighting.
I find it confusing, though. I see stuff from both sides claiming it is the other side which is fighting and winning which is why they need to fight harder.
The origins and purpose of the game are a bit nebulous to me too.

I'm beginning to suspect the way to win is not to play.

 

[8ball]

Reading this excellent book at the moment (recommended by another urbanite, iirc) gives more insights into the "policing" of black (and other minority) communities and how the system has always been stacked against the people. How slavery gave way to peonage and slave patrols became cops, how cops are trigger happy and inherently racist and so on.

Unlike Douglas A Blackmon's fascinating Slavery By Another Name, which covers some similar historical ground, this book gives the people and community activists a voice and they share their experiences and hopes with the reader. There's a lot of horror in there, but there's also a glimmer of hope.

Interesting-looking book, but just wondering whether you were definitely posting on the right thread.

 

[krtek a houby]

Interesting-looking book, but just wondering whether you were definitely posting on the right thread.

Possibly, possibly not. Cops are state funded armed murderers (imho), so there's maybe a case for regarding them as mass murderers?

 

[8ball]

Possibly, possibly not. Cops are state funded armed murderers (imho), so there's maybe a case for regarding them as mass murderers?

I presume you mean in the States. Even over there I doubt the average cop will kill many people over the course of a career.

edit: just checked, most current figure seems to be about one killing per 700 officers per year. Ish. If they are state funded mass murderers I think someone is getting very little bang (literally) for their tax buck.

 

[Ming]

That sounds a bit like the right is the only side fighting.
I find it confusing, though. I see stuff from both sides claiming it is the other side which is fighting and winning which is why they need to fight harder.
The origins and purpose of the game are a bit nebulous to me too.

I'm beginning to suspect the way to win is not to play.

No. Both sides are fighting but one side is using dirty tactics.

Well the thing is the opposing side (my side) is pro choice, gun control, citizens income, pro-culture but anti-nationalism, pro-democracy, etc.

You’ve got to play or the cunts win by default.

And the reason why stuff like party gate and trump are great for the right is it makes people cynical which will make them less likely to vote. Which is the only real power we have over these cunts. I‘m sure you know this stuff anyway but it’s always reiterating.

 

[8ball]

No. Both sides are fighting but one side is using dirty tactics.

Well the thing is the opposing side (my side) is pro choice, gun control, citizens income, pro-culture but anti-nationalism, pro-democracy, etc.

You’ve got to play or the cunts win by default.

And the reason why stuff like party gate and trump are great for the right is it makes people cynical which will make them less likely to vote. Which is the only real power we have over these cunts. I‘m sure you know this stuff anyway but it’s always reiterating.

I assure you both sides are using dirty tactics.

I also find both sides increasingly employing rhetoric and argument that is diverging heavily from reality. The choice to keep playing comes with a commitment to a consensual hallucination that reminds me of QAnon. The self-appointed gatekeepers of rationality (eg. organised atheists, debunkers, fact checkers) are also fully bought in.

The part I'm foggy on is whether it is an entirely emergent cultural phenomenon or whether there is something more behind the curtain, because it sure is a good way of keeping people distracted while their standard of living goes to shit.

The argument against that thought is of course that there doesn't seem to be anyone competent enough to pull off a conspiracy of this kind.

 

[Ming]

I assure you both sides are using dirty tactics.

The part I'm not sure about is whether it is an entirely emergent cultural phenomenon or whether there is something more behind the curtain, because it sure is a good way of keeping people distracted while their standard of living goes to shit.

I’m an outcomes type person.

If the progressive nice end of humanity can disempower these barbarians through dirty tricks then I'm all for it. Thing is i only see that kind of focus on the right. They’ll lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. Problem is on the Left we’re a bit nicer which gives a disadvantage.

I’d like to see a more ruthless 2022 version of Alister Campbell arise from the political grave with the Arc of the Covenant sending out love beams to melt the faces of the front bench.

 

[8ball]

I’m an outcomes type person.

If the progressive nice end of humanity can disempower these barbarians through dirty tricks then I'm all for it. Thing is i only see that kind of focus on the right. They’ll lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. Problem is on the Left we’re a bit nicer which gives a disadvantage.

I’d like to see a more ruthless 2022 version of Alister Campbell arise from the political grave with the Arc of the Covenant sending out love beams to melt the faces of the front bench.

Agree that the right are far nastier, and that there are advantages to playing for the dark side. I've seen things which have disappointed me greatly in "our" side, though. I think the love beams are going to be the way to go, but no one on the battlefield is using them right now imo.

 

[Ming]

Agree that the right are far nastier, and that there are advantages to playing for the dark side. I've seen things which have disappointed me greatly in "our" side, though. I think the love beams are going to be the way to go, but no one on the battlefield is using them right now imo.

I’ve been a union rep (CPSA so a while ago but I’m active in my current union) so i know there’s some sketchy types on both sides but as you say more on the right. Don’t agree with you if your saying there is equivalency. You can use the ‘couple of bad apples’ thing for the left but for the right i think there are a lot more.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I'm almost wondering if it should go further on the other direction.

Make it a legal requirement to be armed.

But also make it so you are legally required to be trained and evaluated.

Become that well-regulated militia



This is not a serious belief.

Just a musing. Any options that have impact will not stand the battlefield that is us politics

 

[8ball]

I’ve been a union rep (CPSA so a while ago but I’m active in my current union) so i know there’s some sketchy types on both sides but as you say more on the right. Don’t agree with you if your saying there is equivalency. You can use the ‘couple of bad apples’ thing for the left but for the right i think there are a lot more.

No, not equivalency at all, far from it. It's hard to analyse this stuff on here because people are very invested and the ideological immune system is on a hair trigger, and I guess I am basically accusing both sides of creating a kind of flimsy film set and demanding it be accepted as reality, although the right is much more comfortable with breaking the rules. They have a kind of "tolerance" similar to what the Flat Earthers have for each others crazy theories - the world can take very many different forms so long as it is not a mildly ovoid sphere...

 

[Ming]

No, not equivalency at all, far from it. It's hard to analyse this stuff on here because people are very invested and the ideological immune system is on a hair trigger, and I guess I am basically accusing both sides of creating a kind of flimsy film set and demanding it be accepted as reality, although the right is much more comfortable with breaking the rules. They have a kind of "tolerance" similar to what the Flat Earthers have for each others crazy theories - the world can take very many different forms so long as it is not a mildly ovoid sphere...

Nah.

There is wrong and right. And the left are following Jebus ironically (do unto others as they would have them do unto you). I’m an atheist BTW but seems to make sense to me. But the right are just barbarians.

I like this quote from Galbraith…

’The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior justification for selfishness.’

 

[RedRedRose]

Become that well-regulated militia

I can only make sense of the obsession with weapons as a political consequence of the abolition of slavery. I can't conceive of any pro-gun group wanting armed black people.

 

[High Voltage]

I can only make sense of the obsession with weapons as a political consequence of the abolition of slavery. I can't conceive of any pro-gun group wanting armed black people.

Typically, that would be one of the differences between a "gun nut" (often right wing, anti... Well, everything not straight, white male) and a real 2nd amendment proponent who is in favour of everyone who wants or feels a need to bear arms, for whatever reason, doing so and actively supporting and encouraging them in that decision, including training

 

[Ax^]

 

[Cid]

I don't think it would, if anything it would probably depoliticize them as every adult could join.

Nah I think you are wildly underestimating a whole bunch factors; state power, power of the supreme court, ideology behind gun ownership, entrenched racism, political/ideological division between districts/counties/states etc, distribution of power within those divisions, power of lobby groups etc etc. Assuming you could get it passed, which you couldn't. It might work if you had full root and branch reform of a number of institutions, but by that point you're on the road to working through these problems anyway. In a US where we're seeing state legislatures restricting teaching the history of racism, where we're seeing the supreme court overturning nearly 50 years of reproductive rights, we're just very, very far from that. Certainly at a constitutional level.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Nothing will change and they’ll be another mass shooting before the end of the week.

 

[Ax^]

aye and strangely thoughts and prayers won't stop that one either

 

[RedRedRose]

Typically, that would be one of the differences between a "gun nut" (often right wing, anti... Well, everything not straight, white male) and a real 2nd amendment proponent who is in favour of everyone who wants or feels a need to bear arms, for whatever reason, doing so and actively supporting and encouraging them in that decision, including training

I understand how someone could have a non-racial reading of the 2nd Amendment; hell, in theory, having a measure to stop tyranny is a good proposal. However, the political meaning and weight the 2nd Amendment has attached to it, means that it is prone to some of the worst kind of scaremongering by gun groups.