Boy, were they savage, that piece in the Sun Online from the 'affable' Newton Dunn was quickly removed.
The 2019 General Election
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
Boy, were they savage, that piece in the Sun Online from the 'affable' Newton Dunn was quickly removed.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It's all just a load of people saying "I was right all the time and this result proves it", isn't it.
They could sell t-shirts to raise funds with, I told you so! on.
Cid
Proper break this time
That is admittedly true.
ruffneck23
front left
I’m going to get one for five years time , hopefully it will still fit , and I’m still alive
This piece is good about what Labour should do next fwiw
A party that works and wins for working people will need to understand us first
A party that works and wins for working people will need to understand us first
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
There's no one factor to blame for Labours defeat.
Corbyn vs Johnson in 2017 would likely have been a decent win but the man's never been charismatic enough to win over the gruff builders, plumbers and delivery driver types who make up much of the modern working class. At the same time Labour has drifted away from supporting these people and mattering to them the last few decades, instead they've been sold the lie that immigration is to blame for all ills and Corbyn was never going to all out and support anti-immigration. Something that must be applauded at least. They've been sold this by politicians from all sides and the media which is solidly supporting capital and status quo.
The media at best approaches left matters from a "oh we must be jolly and play nice with different people" perspective and never really sells a different way of living or working together.
Remainers never managed to work together and the electorate was fed the fuck up with Brexit. If there had been a majority for a single soft Brexit or customs union in may put in front of the house we'd be approaching a Norway plus settlement with the EU or a second ref. Instead they fucked about and left a hypothetical second ref on table. Boris was clever enough to note that making this a election about Brexit it would act as a second ref by default. And guess which side would be split by that (hint not leave)
Lastly Corbyn is filled with a lot of baggage and after 4 solid years there's no way the constant barrage of traitor by all sources would make a difference. I like the guy and he can work a crowd but he's not able to translate that to TV audiences or the unconverted.
There's probably more but this will do for now.
Corbyn vs Johnson in 2017 would likely have been a decent win but the man's never been charismatic enough to win over the gruff builders, plumbers and delivery driver types who make up much of the modern working class. At the same time Labour has drifted away from supporting these people and mattering to them the last few decades, instead they've been sold the lie that immigration is to blame for all ills and Corbyn was never going to all out and support anti-immigration. Something that must be applauded at least. They've been sold this by politicians from all sides and the media which is solidly supporting capital and status quo.
The media at best approaches left matters from a "oh we must be jolly and play nice with different people" perspective and never really sells a different way of living or working together.
Remainers never managed to work together and the electorate was fed the fuck up with Brexit. If there had been a majority for a single soft Brexit or customs union in may put in front of the house we'd be approaching a Norway plus settlement with the EU or a second ref. Instead they fucked about and left a hypothetical second ref on table. Boris was clever enough to note that making this a election about Brexit it would act as a second ref by default. And guess which side would be split by that (hint not leave)
Lastly Corbyn is filled with a lot of baggage and after 4 solid years there's no way the constant barrage of traitor by all sources would make a difference. I like the guy and he can work a crowd but he's not able to translate that to TV audiences or the unconverted.
There's probably more but this will do for now.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Even the corbynites!.
is that happening here?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There's something here for everyone
mauvais
on reddit or something
It'd be more interesting if it showed 'did not vote', especially for 2019.
mod
A modernist
I'm still in shock and mourning the election result. I've never felt this down after an election. It's so fucking depressing.
They had BoJo on the ropes and Brexit was far from certain. Now look.
Johnson, Raab, priti patel, Mogg are horrible, horrible cunts.
Sorry, not much value to this post. I just feel so devastated.
They had BoJo on the ropes and Brexit was far from certain. Now look.
Johnson, Raab, priti patel, Mogg are horrible, horrible cunts.
Sorry, not much value to this post. I just feel so devastated.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
I've heard some pretty disingenuous bollocks the past few days but a couple of points that stick out are that Corbyn was unwilling to form a unity government after a vote of no confidence. It was my understanding it was Swinson who was unwilling because she kept saying how divisive Corbyn was and that Ken Clarke or Harriet Harmon should.
Second one is this morning and that cunt Blair's response 'Labour should've accepted the result of the referendum' I mean wtf? He was constantly blabbering on from the sidelines about how we need a second referendum.
Second one is this morning and that cunt Blair's response 'Labour should've accepted the result of the referendum' I mean wtf? He was constantly blabbering on from the sidelines about how we need a second referendum.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Did Blair really say that? Lol
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Proper Tidy
Arsed
So Blair thinks Labour should have followed Corbyn's preferred strategy rather than the one Blair banged on about, using his weight to force the issue in the press and the labour party, again and again. Amazing stuff.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Tbf I suppose Blair's does differ a bit because he's still wedded to this second referendum bollocks whereas Corbyn wanted to force a GE and strike a labour brexit deal. But anyway, lol
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I liked this bit
Oh we don't want to advise people not to boil their political opponents alive because that advice will be rejected.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Surely the age demographic of party support taken in conjunction with the age demographic of where people get their news from must go someway to explaining Labour's poor performance?
Anyway I'm just finishing off 'The Making of the English Working Class' and one key lesson it seems to offer is that unless a movement is born out of the culture, practices and desires of a class (or can at least genuinely engage with that culture, those practices and desires) then it cannot hope to achieve its goals. Another is that any such movement needs its own spaces to share, interrogate and build on its experiences. There was a period when the Labour Party may have been able to play a role in meeting the demands of both these lessons; in these immediate post-election days it is hard to see any such remaining capacity.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Anyway I'm just finishing off 'The Making of the English Working Class' and one key lesson it seems to offer is that unless a movement is born out of the culture, practices and desires of a class (or can at least genuinely engage with that culture, those practices and desires) then it cannot hope to achieve its goals. Another is that any such movement needs its own spaces to share, interrogate and build on its experiences. There was a period when the Labour Party may have been able to play a role in meeting the demands of both these lessons; in these immediate post-election days it is hard to see any such remaining capacity.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
All those not-so-worthies sermonizing about how they'd have done it differently should remember that, by denying the existence of hard choices, Vote Leave's gleefully dishonest, xenophobic horrowshow of a campaign made a sensible Brexit vanishingly unlikely.
Labour can be rightly criticized for their six tests, "jobs first Brexit" and the rest of the nonsense churned out by those who knew better, but even if they'd advocated Norway consistently and honestly from the start, in a climate where even May's very hard Brexit was denounced as BINO, it would've been an uphill struggle, via a steep incline, on ice.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Don't think I quite agree with that. Norway +, in the form of 'Common Market II', came about as close as anything last year to winning the support of parliament. If Labour had advocated that from the start, it might have found some tough going initially, but May's deal would still have failed in just the way it did, and then Labour would have been left in a vastly improved position.
I say the above partly with the benefit of hindsight, but there was always a strong moral case for something akin to Norway + - 'leave the EU but stay in EFTA' reflects a referendum split nearly 50:50 with no detail of what any brexit might look like much more accurately than any other form of brexit.
imo Labour made the biggest mistake tactically by going along with May's assertion that the referendum result demanded new immigration controls (these are also new emigration controls, of course, something that is all too rarely pointed out). It didn't. Immigration wasn't on the ballot paper. Ed Milliband made the same mistake in bowing to tory pressure to bang on about immigration. Concede that this is a source of the UK's social ills and you already concede a great deal more on all kinds of areas to the right.
Still might not have worked, of course, but it might have avoided the ludicrous situation in which Labour contrived to find itself the party hardest hit by the mess of brexit, a mess created entirely by the Tory party.
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