The 2019 General Election

[two sheds]

They also use simpler language and give simpler reasons for society's ills. Wrong but simpler.

 

[teuchter]

You seem to be asking for confirmation that people who criticise a group they don't see themselves as belonging to don't see themselves as belonging to that group.

No, I am interested in the choice of the word 'hobbyist', assuming it is meant as a criticism. If you are calling others hobbyists, what does it mean about how you rate yourself in comparison.

 

[redsquirrel]

Boris Johnson announces plans for spending spree in north

The people's govt'

who is advising him, is this Cummings work?

Government's have promised spending spree's for hundreds of years. You don't need some special adviser to tell you this is a good idea.

Moreover, it fits with Johnsons own politics, he has never really been an economic dry, he likes spending money - look at his tenure as London mayor. It may be money spent on useless or even harmful things (Garden Bridge) but his politics differs from Cameron, Osbourne, May, Hammond.

Finally, and most importantly, one of the genuine victories of Labour under Corbyn has been that they have helped make the idea of further cuts to public services politically toxic.

 

[Poi E]

Finally, and most importantly, one of the genuine victories of Labour under Corbyn has been that they have helped make the idea of further cuts to public services politically toxic.

Has it? With that sort of majority Johnson won't have any trouble asking the one nation to come together for post brexit cuts. We're all in this together.

 

[flypanam]

One thing that’s occurred to me is how right wing politics is viewed by joe voting public as being non-ideological. Like it’s the party of freedom. And left wing politics is ideological. Marx, USSR, ‘the enemy within’, etc. When right wing politics is actually intensely ideological. Hayek, Strauss, Friedman, Rand, etc. I think it’d be a good tactic going forward to point this out.

I think it is one of the problems for the left is we've allowed the right to dominate the idea of freedom, we (the left) don't talk about freedom nearly enough, we should talk up the idea of life be free from both State and Economic coercion.

 

[Plumdaff]

If he's got any sense he'll spend some money. It wouldn't take much, just enough so next election people in those constituencies that switched could think, we voted Tory, and things got a bit better.

Meanwhile the red cities will continue to be squeezed.

 

[redsquirrel]

Has it? With that sort of majority Johnson won't have any trouble asking the one nation to come together for post brexit cuts. We're all in this together.

1) What evidence is there that Johnson will do such?
2) You are focussing on party politics, I'm talking about society. Regardless of what the government does there has been a clear shift in popular opinion against cut's to public services, an increased vocal backing for nationalisation. Hence a 2019 Conservative manifesto that is to the left of the 2010 and 2015 Labour manifesto's. Hence the above inflation wage rises have been seen in parts of the public sector.

In 2010 and 2015 both parties (+the LD scum) were promising attacks on public services, in 2019 no major party was. That is a real shift. And while there are many factors for it, for all my criticism of the LP, it would be churlish not to give Labour members some credit is helping to make it.

 

[Poi E]

I hope you are right, but the history of the Conservative Party of the last few decades is not to boost public services. I suspect any increases in funding will be in the form of payments to private sector subcontractors of the state. As far as evidence goes, I have none. However, I do not believe Brexit will expand the economy, and I believe this will reduce public spending overall, regardless of whatever platitudes were sold to the public this election.

 

[Don Troooomp]

I don't believe a word that comes out of Johnson's fat gob but the country is stuck with him for a while. He'll make things look or sound good for a while, then cut, cut, cut.

 

[Proper Tidy]

No, I am interested in the choice of the word 'hobbyist', assuming it is meant as a criticism. If you are calling others hobbyists, what does it mean about how you rate yourself in comparison.

It refers to people for who leftwing politics is an exclusive social scene where they talk to each other, without hope, and perhaps without intent, of that translating into any sort of mass politics.

Not a phrase I use myself tbh but that's what it refers to.

 

[Mr Moose]

1) What evidence is there that Johnson will do such?
2) You are focussing on party politics, I'm talking about society. Regardless of what the government does there has been a clear shift in popular opinion against cut's to public services, an increased vocal backing for nationalisation. Hence a 2019 Conservative manifesto that is to the left of the 2010 and 2015 Labour manifesto's. Hence the above inflation wage rises have been seen in parts of the public sector.

In 2010 and 2015 both parties (+the LD scum) were promising attacks on public services, in 2019 no major party was. That is a real shift. And while there are many factors for it, for all my criticism of the LP, it would be churlish not to give Labour members some credit is helping to make it.

Maybe, but the odds are these will fall short of repairing the damage caused and meanwhile the same forces roll on.

Fast forward five years, Dominic Cummings breaks ranks I genuinely thought they wanted to change things.

 

[Poi E]

Cummings worked in post-Soviet Russia 1994-1997. No doubt he picked up some tips on fleecing a state of its public assets while you sell it as democracy.

 

[magneze]

One thing that’s occurred to me is how right wing politics is viewed by joe voting public as being non-ideological. Like it’s the party of freedom. And left wing politics is ideological. Marx, USSR, ‘the enemy within’, etc. When right wing politics is actually intensely ideological. Hayek, Strauss, Friedman, Rand, etc. I think it’d be a good tactic going forward to point this out.

Point it out to who?

 

[Idris2002]

For anyone who thinks Johnson is going to suddenly flash the cash:

 

[redsquirrel]

I hope you are right, but the history of the Conservative Party of the last few decades is not to boost public services. I suspect any increases in funding will be in the form of payments to private sector subcontractors of the state. As far as evidence goes, I have none.

Oh I'm not making a claim that the Conservative Party is going to move from neo-liberalism, of course they won't.

There will still be cuts to the "unpopular' public services - immigration, benefits, overseas aid. Any increased funding will be used to advance the aims of neo-liberalism, facilitating the private sector, etc. But that is still a different politics to Cameron/Obsourne, May/Hammond or even Labour 2010-2015.

And it is something that those of us with socialist politics need to build on - something that can be used to extend political solidarity

 

[Poi E]

For anyone who thinks Johnson is going to suddenly flash the cash:

Fuck, that was fast.

That pesky Human Rights Act must be for the chopping block now. Easy win.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

For anyone who thinks Johnson is going to suddenly flash the cash:

The article is from November. Which is actually worse than them suddenly saying it now.

 

[billy_bob]

No, I am interested in the choice of the word 'hobbyist', assuming it is meant as a criticism. If you are calling others hobbyists, what does it mean about how you rate yourself in comparison.

Presumably people who do a thing as a part-time diversion, rather than a permanent lifelong commitment or way of life. I don't necessarily hold with its pejorative use, but I thought the intended meaning was clear enough.

E2a: posted before I saw Proper Tidy's similar response

 

[chilango]

I use "hobbyist" from time to time. And I don't exclude myself from the term when it fits.

It, for me, is pretty straightforward.

People for whom the Left fulfils the same role in their life as any other hobby

It provides things to do, some sort of social life, an element of identity and so on.

 

[Ming]

Point it out to who?

Joe public.

 

[Pickman's model]

I use "hobbyist" from time to time. And I don't exclude myself from the term when it fits.

It, for me, is pretty straightforward.

People for whom the Left fulfils the same role in their life as any other hobby

It provides things to do, some sort of social life, an element of identity and so on.

Like work

But sadly I can't leave work and go down the pub and watch the racing or play chess when I feel like it

 

[magneze]

Joe public.

Do you think that it'd sway anyone's vote?

 

[Ming]

Do you think that it'd sway anyone's vote?

Yes. Of course it would. If the medicine went down. People these days are conditioned to small sound bites. Just do it that way.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yes. Of course it would. If the medicine went down. People these days are conditioned to small sound bites. Just do it that way.

Not like you with your great big amygdala eh Ming?

 

[teuchter]

It refers to people for who leftwing politics is an exclusive social scene where they talk to each other, without hope, and perhaps without intent, of that translating into any sort of mass politics.

Not a phrase I use myself tbh but that's what it refers to.

Seems kind of snooty and arrogant to use it against those who decided to put their support behind labour/corbyn for the GE, whatever one might think about corbyn it's something that actually has a chance of real world effect. I spent last night with some people who gave up masses of their spare time - weekends and evenings after work - to go door knocking and so on. They did it because they wanted to do something positive; I take my hat off to them because it's way more than I and most people do. Of course they were devastated by the result. No doubt they'd be impressed by a member of some leftist micro-faction telling them they are 'hobbyists'.

 

[butchersapron]

Jesus.

Have you heard of a man called Hayek?

 

[butchersapron]

Now teuchter's stale warmed up concern trolling. Oh what a morning.

 

[teuchter]

Now teuchter's stale warmed up concern trolling. Oh what a morning.

Are you a hobbyist or a pro? A pro, right?

 

[stolinski]

M

Are you saying I in Orkney should be voting for someone sitting in Glasgow Or Edinburgh? Please visit the north of Scotland, including the isles, you will then understand why so many seats with so few numbers

haha no i was making a point about the need for proportional representation

 

[stolinski]

Why have you decided for the rest of us that proportional votes in the only way that democracy could operate? That result looks pretty sweet btw.

if you are not in favour of PR i would honestly like to hear why