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The 2017 General Election campaign

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My possibly naive and misguided position is that I'm not voting for the Labour Party of 1997 to 2010. I'm voting very specifically for the party of 2015 to now, which feels like for the first time in my lifetime is proposing a shift towards the kind of politics I'm interested in. I don't kid myself that Corbyn is offering anything more radical than fairly standard European social democracy but you only have to look at the reaction he's received to see that sadly in this country even that would be a radical shift. I do sincerely believe that it would be a shift that would transform a lot of lives for the better.

I think it would be much easier to start demanding more radical politics when ideas of solidarity and more collective action were more sown into the societal fabric. I think it's much easier for people to find each other and start fighting when they aren't scrabbling around for the basics of life. I think it would lead me to hope and work for better.

Stump speech over. So sad it's unlikely.
 
Nice graffiti Camden.

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Who PhD said:
that wasn't my question.

My question was: so what if they have a shady past compared to the alternative?
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I was objecting to the present day Labour Party as much as its past forms.
so then the follow up question I guess is, so what if they have a shady present compared to the alternative? by which I'm assuming you mean the Tories. Well I'm not voting for them or anyone else either, but my answer would be that as a socialist I necessarily believe in an alternative that cannot be achieved through parliament and which the Labour Party is an active opponent of. so that's what I try to direct my effort towards as best as I can.
 
inva said:
I was objecting to the present day Labour Party as much as its past forms.
so then the follow up question I guess is, so what if they have a shady present compared to the alternative? by which I'm assuming you mean the Tories. Well I'm not voting for them or anyone else either, but my answer would be that as a socialist I necessarily believe in an alternative that cannot be achieved through parliament and which the Labour Party is an active opponent of. so that's what I try to direct my effort towards as best as I can.
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Choosing not to vote doesn't work though, it just enables the Tories.
 
DexterTCN said:
Firstly...didn't ask you to search for anything.

Secondly, don't actually give a shit what you believe on the matter. You didn't see the debate. When you say "Dugdale immediately denied this categorically." you're talking utter garbage. Lying basically.



You posted "Dugdale immediately denied this categorically."

You're a liar. She did no such thing.
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Typical Dexter aggression and bullishness, along with typical Dexter mis-comprehension. I'd say that you're a bit of a cunt, but cunts are useful. You're just a gobshite. :)
 
Who PhD said:
Choosing not to vote doesn't work though, it just enables the Tories.
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Spot fucking on. Every non vote is a vote for the privatisation of the NHS, for more tax cuts for the rich, for less money into education and care. We have to get out and vote for whoever
can beat the Tories. And there is no excuse now for anyone to refuse to vote Labour because they are not left wing enough.
 
I've only just found out who all my local candidates are! Labour and Green excluded.

There's a libscum I've always wanted to vote against, the WRP and the SDP. The SDP are standing all across Sheffield for some reason.
 
inva said:
and voting for Labour enables Labour, which as I've explained isn't something I want to do.
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Yes, that's why I said your plan enables the tories. There's only two outcomes (barring the highly implausible). So which is worse in your opinion? Labour, I presume.
 
Who PhD said:
Yes, that's why I said your plan enables the tories. There's only two outcomes (barring the highly implausible). So which is worse in your opinion? Labour, I presume.
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What's the point of pursuing this line of arguing? I'm voting Labour, I've got out there and I have canvassed for Labour but there are a good number of people on here with well thought out reasons as to why they cannot or will not do either of those things and you aren't going to convince them otherwise like this. In any case, left of Labour but won't vote Labour isn't really a large demographic which is worth pursuing for many votes..
 
J Ed said:
What's the point of pursuing this line of arguing? I'm voting Labour, I've got out there and I have canvassed for Labour but there are a good number of people on here with well thought out reasons as to why they cannot or will not do either of those things and you aren't going to convince them otherwise like this. In any case, left of Labour but won't vote Labour isn't really a large demographic which is worth pursuing for many votes..
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I haven't seen a reason put forward. I've just been told "i'm not voting labour", that's it.
 
BTW, since it is almost certainly about to be dashed I'd like to just say that I have enjoyed the atmosphere of almost daring to be hopeful with all of you on here the past couple of weeks. It has been fun, genuinely nice, to be on the side of people that I've moaned at and rowed with in other threads. I respect the reasons that people give for not voting Labour, and I think that it must be very frustrating for them to see so many of us going down what they must see as a political dead end. Thank you for not giving us too hard a time.
 
Who PhD said:
Yes, that's why I said your plan enables the tories. There's only two outcomes (barring the highly implausible). So which is worse in your opinion? Labour, I presume.
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I will humour you and gaze into the future to let you know that with Labour achieving a majority in the general election and attempting to implement a few mild reforms, there is a retaliation of capital flight, an attack on sterling along with relentless attacks from the right and sabotage from within the PLP leads to a big crisis and Corbyn's government collapses. There follows a vicious reaction resulting in the next election a hard right Tory government even more vile than what we have now and the total discrediting of left wing ideas as they are proven totally 'unworkable'.
 
inva said:
I will humour you and gaze into the future to let you know that with Labour achieving a majority in the general election and attempting to implement a few mild reforms, there is a retaliation of capital flight, an attack on sterling along with relentless attacks from the right and sabotage from within the PLP leads to a big crisis and Corbyn's government collapses. There follows a vicious reaction resulting in the next election a hard right Tory government even more vile than what we have now and the total discrediting of left wing ideas as they are proven totally 'unworkable'.
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Apart from all that though, happy days innit? :D :p
 
inva said:
I will humour you and gaze into the future to let you know that with Labour achieving a majority in the general election and attempting to implement a few mild reforms, there is a retaliation of capital flight, an attack on sterling along with relentless attacks from the right and sabotage from within the PLP leads to a big crisis and Corbyn's government collapses. There follows a vicious reaction resulting in the next election a hard right Tory government even more vile than what we have now and the total discrediting of left wing ideas as they are proven totally 'unworkable'.
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And as if that weren't enough, in seven billion years the Sun will run out of hydrogen and collapse, which will presumably bring an end - amongst other things - to Tunnocks teacake production. It's hard to know what the point of getting out of bed is any more.
 
Pickman's model said:
yeh. the left. but how far left? the thing is of course that anarchists oppose the state and the labour party rather support it. i don't know how you propose to square that particular circle.
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You misunderstand me. I don't. Only last Friday I attended a vigil for the dead of the DWP. Knowing how close I have been to being one of the depicted on the posters allows me to take a pragmatic stance on this. I admire principles and principled people. But I stop before I put my principles ahead of people's lives.
 
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