butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Your response helps to bring out that your commitment to the labour party cannot be based on objectivity - only on wild unsustainable subjectivity.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Certainly a dozen or so are but there are a good few ex SWSS that have either refused to get involved or having got involved decided it wasn't for them. Mind you, I'd suggest a few of those actively don't want to be involved in anything off campus, where they feel safe, except for the odd big demo.
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
For your delectation, here's a link to a loyalist/idoom letter which is doing the rounds:
http://johnmullenagen.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/my-view-on-socialist-workers-party-in.html
Also, John Charlton (a middle of the roader?) has published a well-meaning but totally wrong-headed appeal to oppos on his Facebook page. It's all down to the "logic of factions" you see....
http://johnmullenagen.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/my-view-on-socialist-workers-party-in.html
Also, John Charlton (a middle of the roader?) has published a well-meaning but totally wrong-headed appeal to oppos on his Facebook page. It's all down to the "logic of factions" you see....
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
"The sense that you can live to fight another day disappears. It apparently becomes impossible to see the dialectic at work."
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Yes, that's my problem: I failed to see the dialectic at work. The same must be true of X and Y, Ian Birchall and all the oppos. The dialectic rules, OK."The sense that you can live to fight another day disappears. It apparently becomes impossible to see the dialectic at work."
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Seems like the dialetic just means hanging around and waiting for people to forget. In this case, the people waiting around are going to be gone well before those they're waiting to disappear.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
It's hard to not react to that with a little sarcasm, how many people here do you think are unaware of that? It doesn't negate my point at all.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Articul8 manages the impossible; making bolshiebhoy appear to be not the most vile person on Urban
dennisr
the acceptable face
I think bolshieboy remains ahead by a long shot when it comes to most vile...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
One's an idiot lying to himself - ones a desiccated calculating machine who's computated that lying to others and putting his rusty skills at dissembling at the service of the worst part of the SWP is something worth spending a lot of time doing. I think the former would come out on the right side if he was in the middle of this.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
I still half think he's just a wind-up, after nobody could be so despicable as to actually join that witches brew
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Anyone like to guess what will become of Pat Stack? As far as I know he hasn't resigned but I'd have thought it would be difficult for him to remain in the SWP now?
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Just realised that comment could apply to both articul8 and BB
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Apols if this has been posted already
http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/12/16/dear-charlie-im-off/
ETA : blimey, wouldn't have put it up if I'd known how short it was...
http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/12/16/dear-charlie-im-off/
ETA : blimey, wouldn't have put it up if I'd known how short it was...
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I'd be extremely surprised if he stays. Remember, we've only seen 50 or so of the quickest resignations so far, when the joint resignation isn't expected till January
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I don't think he'll go.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
We haven't heard from quite a few of the more prominent oppositionists yet: Dee, Stack, Gonzalez, Davidson. But none of them have been mentioned as "good people who are staying in" when that subject has come up amongst the departing either.
I think it will be quite difficult for any of the above to stay in, even if they wanted to. The leadership might let them, in a "parade the barbarian king naked through the streets of Rome" sort of way, but they'd be lightning rods for rank and file loyalist resentment.
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emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Whenever I read many of these I can't help feeling that the writer couldn't give a shit about the women at the center of this and are simply happy to have a stick to beat the SWP with.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I don't think that they're principled enough to leave. I think they can and will make staying a point of demonstrative principle. People like them with long long associations and stuff that can be mended over the medium-long term - i think they'll bottle it.
The loyalists will not make him welcome
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I have zero percent enthusiasm for the prospect of this blogger and her mates setting themselves up as the demonstration / campaign police.
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Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Why them and not Birchall, Neale, Wilson, Bergfeld etc?
None of the faction leaders bit at the "middle ground statement" lure, which would have been the easiest way to prepare to stay.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
First age, second in no way as central as the names mentioned and have separate separable careers. I've read/heard outright lies from them time after time - stack esp - so much that i wouldn't trust them.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I don't really see a dividing line on those grounds between Dee, Stack, Davidson, Gonzalez on the one hand and Bergfeld, Birchall, Wilson, Neale on the other.
On the trust thing, well I don't think you really have to look at it from that angle. All of these people have burnt a lot of bridges, are now no longer going to have a supportive milieu inside the organisation. There's no way back for any of them in loyalist terms.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Did Gonzalez sign the middle ground letter? That would seem to me to be the best indicator.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
not sure, but Trudell did and I cant see one leaving and the other staying
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Ah. Fair enough.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's what people have been saying for 18 months though - and some (of the prominent i mean) have stayed (the majority) and some have gone. I think there's a little bit of forgetting how hard headed these people are when expectations are announced.
edit: what an oddly constructed sentence - i meant that you may be expecting more than they will do due to the current fevered debate - and maybe a residual respect for them.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
they've been hanging on for the last year/eighteen months. They didnt want to go with the Seymour.youth because -well, I dont think they like Seymour, and they had more invested. But there is no way they can effectively remain, or be trusted, or that anyone would listen to them if they tried to say the SWP is now a great party we all should join. Its just too obviously bollocks.
It is true tho, that everyone I knew was going to leave for sure already has done, and no one else apart from Jonathan Neale has. It is also true I have time for Stack and Gonzalez as well.
Any word from Gary McFarlane, btw? (not to you in particular that last bit, butch)
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