SWP expulsions and squabbles

[bolshiebhoy]

I didn't think anything on this thread could cheer me up but this collective outpouring of sensitivity has. No idea who the poster was, just thought it was a comical idea whoever said it, whatever their age or gender. still do. this cult of youth shit has gone to your heads.

 

[Belushi]

 

[J Ed]

I didn't think anything on this thread could cheer me up but this collective outpouring of sensitivity has. No idea who the poster was, just thought it was a comical idea whoever said it, whatever their age or gender. still do. this cult of youth shit has gone to your heads.

Also you think people are angry with you and the SWP because of "the cult of youth"? wtf? Yea I suppose those rape victims should just shut up and accept the droit du seigneur.

 

[manny-p]

I didn't think anything on this thread could cheer me up but this collective outpouring of sensitivity has. No idea who the poster was, just thought it was a comical idea whoever said it, whatever their age or gender. still do. this cult of youth shit has gone to your heads.

You are on a sinking ship mate. Do yourself a favour and take a leap.

 

[frogwoman]

thanks for the comic relief. Some of us needed it.

Listen to yourself

 

[muscovyduck]

I didn't think anything on this thread could cheer me up but this collective outpouring of sensitivity has. No idea who the poster was, just thought it was a comical idea whoever said it, whatever their age or gender. still do. this cult of youth shit has gone to your heads.

I still can't figure out what was comical about my post and why you couldn't have just answered my question. You could've even incorporated an insult into the answer if it was too painful to make a valid contribution.

I was going to explain why it's an important point but you basically proved it for me.

 

[killer b]

just had to unban myself to call bolshy a cunt.

anyway, as you were.

 

[frogwoman]

mate you dont have the right to call anything comic relief, you rejoined the SWP after leaving for many years, after it held a fuckin rape case and found the alleged rapist innocent. Of all the reasons to join a political party ffs.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Apparently there are a couple of isolated bits of the country where the local branch is totally opposition and they aren't planning to resign, most notably Kent.

 

[comrade spurski]

I didn't think anything on this thread could cheer me up but this collective outpouring of sensitivity has. No idea who the poster was, just thought it was a comical idea whoever said it, whatever their age or gender. still do. this cult of youth shit has gone to your heads.

I didn't think anything on this thread could cheer me up but this collective outpouring of sensitivity has. No idea who the poster was, just thought it was a comical idea whoever said it, whatever their age or gender. still do. this cult of youth shit has gone to your heads.

Iam really glad I don't personally know you .... or any one as repugnant as you are

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

How the fuck Labour Party members can say shit is beyond me, do they have no self awareness. The SWP's handling of the Delta rape allegations was and continues to be horrendous but compared to the crimes of the Labour Party it pales.

Perhaps only because Labour got to be in government. People who deem themselves, out of nowhere, qualified to be judge and jury on a rape case are very incredibly dangerous. There's no knowing what they might do in power. But yes, Labour crowing is unseemly nonetheless.

 

[treelover]

Apparently there are a couple of isolated bits of the country where the local branch is totally opposition and they aren't planning to resign, most notably Kent.

Sheffield?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Sheffield?

Sheffield is a loyalist stronghold I think.

 

[treelover]

It certainly is, I thought you meant people not planning to resign would make them loyalists asit were.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It certainly is, I thought you meant people not planning to resign would make them loyalists asit were.

I don't follow

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

"Who Is Saying What"

http://www.jimjepps.net/?p=273

ETA : seems more of a general historical repository, but also seems very thorough.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I still can't figure out what was comical about my post and why you couldn't have just answered my question. You could've even incorporated an insult into the answer if it was too painful to make a valid contribution.

I was going to explain why it's an important point but you basically proved it for me.

That might be true if I'd known anything about you when I said it, it was an offhand response to someone whose age and gender I didn't have the foggiest of. But in the climate being created that isn't allowed. Or rather flippancy is allowed on this thread, if the person doing it is anti SWP. I keep forgetting that house rule. None of which is your fault of course so apologies if you got hit in the crossfire.

As I'm normally less dismissive I'll try to explain properly what I meant. I thought it was comical, regardless of who said it, because despite the stupidity of whoever in the party used the phrase women and children (and it was stupid and as I said a few pages back, offensive) it was an attempt by someone to be provocative rather than reflecting some deep seated party animosity to young people. The SWP might have had a torrid time with it's younger members recently but the one thing it hasn't traditionally done is forget to take young people seriously. And by seriously I mean both value them AND argue with them cause theres nothing more patronising than saying, as the opposition do, that young people should be treated with kid gloves intellectually (taken to a silly extreme when the ISN argue with each other about whether they should be allowed to argue with each other). Bollox to that, I was argued with relentlessly since the moment I joined swss and that process of debate and learning is what I valued most about the party when I joined first time round.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I don't think you realise what you've just done there, but it's the perfect illustration of how the SWP has got itself in to this mess. A young woman asks a question and you mockingly dismiss her out of hand. It's fucking vile.

You undermine your own point by pointing out I didn't know who I was being flippant towards. Where you are right is I shouldn't be dismissive to anyone, and in fact it's hypocritical of me when I'm quick enough to whinge about others not taking arguments seriously. So yes. In future I'll do my best to be as unflippant and patient to everyone on this thread as they are to each other and we'll see who blinks first.

 

[revol68]

Perhaps only because Labour got to be in government. People who deem themselves, out of nowhere, qualified to be judge and jury on a rape case are very incredibly dangerous. There's no knowing what they might do in power. But yes, Labour crowing is unseemly nonetheless.

The labour party had no problem invading Iraq and being party to hundreds of thousands of deaths and no doubt quite a few rapes, and all that with no international mandate at all.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I've been thinking about the use of the term rape apologist and I'm not really sure it's the right one to use in this context. Maybe I'm talking out of my arse (wouldn't be the first time) but wouldn't a rape apologist either try to claim rape is OK or agree that an incident that others consider rape did indeed happen but try and argue that it was ok, or maybe that it wasn't actually rape?

In this case, it seems to me, this isn't what's happened. They appear to claim that it never took place in the first place. That's denial, not apologetics.

It's like holocaust denial - they deny the holocaust took place at all. Whereas a holocaust apologist wouldn't deny it took place but would rather try and justify it (and I've often thought this would be a more consistent and coherent argument for a Nazi to make, since given their views on Jews you'd have thought they'd take some kind of perverse pride in it).

It's not a particularly important distinction I admit but I'm in a pedantic mood at the moment.

 

[revol68]

I've been thinking about the use of the term rape apologist and I'm not really sure it's the right one to use in this context. Maybe I'm talking out of my arse (wouldn't be the first time) but wouldn't a rape apologist either try to claim rape is OK or agree that an incident that others consider rape did indeed happen but try and argue that it was ok, or maybe that it wasn't actually rape?

In this case, it seems to me, this isn't what's happened. They appear to claim that it never took place in the first place.

It's like holocaust denial - they deny the holocaust took place at all. Whereas a holocaust apologist wouldn't deny it took place but would rather try and justify it (and I've often thought this would be a more consistent and coherent argument for a Nazi to make, since given their views on Jews you'd have thought they'd take some kind of perverse pride in it).

It's not a particularly important distinction I admit but I'm in a pedantic mood at the moment.

No you're correct and making the distinction is important.

Galloway was pretty much acting as a rape apologist with his "sexual etiquette" bollocks, most of the SWP loyalists are in outright denial as far as I can see. Which position is the more ethically and intellectually bankrupt is another matter.

Denial and apologism are by definition two different things and it doesn't help anyone to conflate the two.

 

[Idris2002]

The funny thing is, looking at the mug shots you'd probably go for a pint with Stalin, though I'd take Kollantai to dinner.

Stalin would turn up wearing only a lime-green mankini, though.

 

[Oisin123]

Sad, dignified and very un self serving. What you'd expect from the man. Huge loss.

Hypocrite. You know full well that Martin is in the wrong and that the CC have manoeuvred to appease his supporters. But because your fundamental conviction is that the SWP must continue in its current form, you think that it is preferable to take the hit and then soldier on. You've written him off as collateral damage.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Apparently there are a couple of isolated bits of the country where the local branch is totally opposition and they aren't planning to resign, most notably Kent.

What's their strategy? Or are they just too traumatised to leave?

 

[SpackleFrog]

And someone mentioned Molyneux, has he resigned?

 

[SpackleFrog]

I've been thinking about the use of the term rape apologist and I'm not really sure it's the right one to use in this context. Maybe I'm talking out of my arse (wouldn't be the first time) but wouldn't a rape apologist either try to claim rape is OK or agree that an incident that others consider rape did indeed happen but try and argue that it was ok, or maybe that it wasn't actually rape?

In this case, it seems to me, this isn't what's happened. They appear to claim that it never took place in the first place. That's denial, not apologetics.

It's like holocaust denial - they deny the holocaust took place at all. Whereas a holocaust apologist wouldn't deny it took place but would rather try and justify it (and I've often thought this would be a more consistent and coherent argument for a Nazi to make, since given their views on Jews you'd have thought they'd take some kind of perverse pride in it).

It's not a particularly important distinction I admit but I'm in a pedantic mood at the moment.

This is all entirely correct, but I think at least for a while you'll struggle to get this across to a wide layer of left types.

 

[belboid]

And someone mentioned Molyneux, has he resigned?

lordy no

 

[belboid]

Sheffield is a loyalist stronghold I think.

one of whose members is now chair of the DC, I believe

 

[SpackleFrog]

one of whose members is now chair of the DC, I believe

Is that Maxine Bowler? Yeah, they're never leaving; from what I can gather the rows around the conference last year were so vicious all the oppositionists resigned as a bloc last year. They are now mostly members of RevSoc and consider the ISN "boring" or something.

 

[belboid]

Is that Maxine Bowler? Yeah, they're never leaving; from what I can gather the rows around the conference last year were so vicious all the oppositionists resigned as a bloc last year. They are now mostly members of RevSoc and consider the ISN "boring" or something.

yeah, all the oppo's left last year. They're all still in ISN tho (even if they might be anathema)