Are the SWP a State Asset?

[shygirl]

True. Or if that fails and everyone else gets organised first, spend the next few weeks expelling people from uaf; calling their own event; turning up at the other organisations meetings, shouting in their faces, and refusing to leave; ripping down posters advertising the antifascist protest; using contacts with local mosques, and bme city councillors and business people to put massive pressure on local bme people to attend the uaf event not the other protest; spreading rumours about specific people within unions and communities; "banning" people from other leftwing meetings; disrupting anti-fascist leafletting; and putting people at risk by shouting out "rival" organisers names in front of police and fash, etc etc.

Reminds me of when the RCP or G actually turned up to protest the stated aims of a Troops Out demo, even handing out leaflets about it to passers-by . Unbelievably divisive and downright stupid.

 

[19force8]

"bequest from an ex members will"

Made me smile - on the assumption that being alive is a condition of membership

Also, anyone who follows the HnH blogs will know bequests are one reason for the continued existence of the NF and BNP.

 

[alex_]

Silly question, might as well ask the same about Corbyn, Momentum, Class War, etc. I don't doubt the state could infiltrate the SWP, after all the BNP did, but to what end? It seems to me the core of their organisation has been around for years with solid working class credentials making it harder for spycops to have much effect. Also explains where much of their money comes from - even a tenner a week soon mounts up.

I don't think you'd need to infiltrate them - just make sure the most "useful" ones were adequately funded.

This is a hilarious thread btw, just imagine the look on their faces when they found out !

Alex

 

[J Ed]

BTW the answer to the thread's title is no, their irrelevance and irritating behaviour is self-propelled.

 

[treelover]

Silly question, might as well ask the same about Corbyn, Momentum, Class War, etc. I don't doubt the state could infiltrate the SWP, after all the BNP did, but to what end? It seems to me the core of their organisation has been around for years with solid working class credentials making it harder for spycops to have much effect. Also explains where much of their money comes from - even a tenner a week soon mounts up.

Er, 'Callinicos's mother, the Honorable Ædgyth Bertha Milburg Mary Antonia Frances Lyon-Dalberg-Acton, was the daughter of the 2nd Lord Acton, descended from the 19th century English historian Lord Acton.'

Alex Callinicos - Wikipedia

 

[Pickman's model]

Er, 'Callinicos's mother, the Honorable Ædgyth Bertha Milburg Mary Antonia Frances Lyon-Dalberg-Acton, was the daughter of the 2nd Lord Acton, descended from the 19th century English historian Lord Acton.'

Alex Callinicos - Wikipedia

Pointed out by class war more than a decade ago. Late again, treelover

 

[Pickman's model]

Reminds me of when the RCP or G actually turned up to protest the stated aims of a Troops Out demo, even handing out leaflets about it to passers-by . Unbelievably divisive and downright stupid.

Rcp more likely than rcg

 

[treelover]

Er, 'Callinicos's mother, the Honorable Ædgyth Bertha Milburg Mary Antonia Frances Lyon-Dalberg-Acton, was the daughter of the 2nd Lord Acton, descended from the 19th century English historian Lord Acton.'

Alex Callinicos - Wikipedia

so what, doesn't knowledge continue, be passed on.

 

[Pickman's model]

so what, doesn't knowledge continue, be passed on.

Why are you quoting yourself?

 

[likesfish]

BTW the answer to the thread's title is no, their irrelevance and irritating behaviour is self-propelled.

Although some spook is probably taking credit well why wouldnt you?
Ethical considerations ?
your in Mi5 straighten up or its the treehouse for you 6 months of vegan slop and digeredoos should rededucate you.

 

[Pickman's model]

Although some spook is probably taking credit well why wouldnt you?
Ethical considerations ?
your in Mi5 straighten up or its the treehouse for you 6 months of vegan slop and digeredoos should rededucate you.

Rededicate?

 

[J Ed]

Although some spook is probably taking credit well why wouldnt you?
Ethical considerations ?
your in Mi5 straighten up or its the treehouse for you 6 months of vegan slop and digeredoos should rededucate you.

Honestly of all the groups you could be sent to infiltrate the SWP would be the one of the shittest I would think, although probably better than Islamist groups since you could drink, and if you were around SWPers all day you'd need to..

 

[Red Cat]

Members of the SWP used to give a considerable chunk of their wages in subs. I should think the older more well-paid members still pay generously.

Accusing absolutely everything they do as hypocritical or cynical or dishonest paints them as pantomime villains.

 

[crossthebreeze]

Genuine question even if it is stupid...Where does their funding come from?

Tbh when i asked this question I a) hadn't really connected it to the title of the thread and b) thought that bluescreen was being sarcastic (as in that either there was some well known open secret about their funding or look they publish their accounts online) rather than actually asking the question themselves!
Anyway thanks for the answers. Subs and legacies makes sense - i guess it doesn't take that many people with biggish salaries who are committed to an organisation, added to all the smaller subs, to finance stuff.

In terms of the op, i think that there's probably some level of infiltration in the swp (and i'm pretty sure i read in several placex othey were infiltrated by Mi5 in the 70s/80s) i would say the same about most of the bigger/more prominent left and radical organisations and groups though. In terms of the purpose at the very least its information gathering - an organisation that's involved in strikes, anti-racism, and tries to place itself into whatever the latest social movement/issue would of course be useful for the authorities to keep tabs on but perhaps more importantly lots of information will flow through the organisation about other workplace organisers and other organisations, the direction that social movements or workplace actions are taking, etc. Other than that i don't know.

 

[emanymton]

Tbh when i asked this question I a) hadn't really connected it to the title of the thread and b) thought that bluescreen was being sarcastic (as in that either there was some well known open secret about their funding or look they publish their accounts online) rather than actually asking the question themselves!
Anyway thanks for the answers. Subs and legacies makes sense - i guess it doesn't take that many people with biggish salaries who are committed to an organisation, added to all the smaller subs, to finance stuff.

In terms of the op, i think that there's probably some level of infiltration in the swp (and i'm pretty sure i read in several placex othey were infiltrated by Mi5 in the 70s/80s) i would say the same about most of the bigger/more prominent left and radical organisations and groups though. In terms of the purpose at the very least its information gathering - an organisation that's involved in strikes, anti-racism, and tries to place itself into whatever the latest social movement/issue would of course be useful for the authorities to keep tabs on but perhaps more importantly lots of information will flow through the organisation about other workplace organisers and other organisations, the direction that social movements or workplace actions are taking, etc. Other than that i don't know.

I think it is more likely that the various fronts and campaigns to be infiltrated than the SWP itself. The ANL certainly was in the 70s. I think it is possible that at its hight there was a cop working/volunteering in the STWC office.

The sort of long term infiltration/control the op goes on about is simply not on the cards. The people at the top of the SWP are not static, how could they ensure continuity? As for information anyone infiltrating the SWP would find out there really isn't much point. With the exception of membership lists there isn't much to learn that isn't publicly available.

It has juat occurred to me that there is probably someone somewhere with the job of keeping track of the SWP and the various other far left parties, which presumably means having to read all their publications cover to cover. Poor sod.

 

[likesfish]

I knew an old sparticust used to complain there Spook used to turn up and then after the meeting rip the speakers arguement apart at the bar afterwards displaying a much better understanding of marxism than any of them had.

It wasn't so much that he was a spook that annoyed them its that his arguements were better didn't really think that was fair.

 

[kebabking]

I always thought it was a standing joke/not joke amongst groups on the left that if you wanted to know who was the spook you just asked yourself who was the most competent, hard-working and effective member...

(I dimly recall reading many years ago that the security services' opinion on the SWP was that they were about as dangerous as a pond full of ducks).

 

[mx wcfc]

Many members pay a lot more than that. 15 years ago when I was a member I knew an IT lecturer paying £125 a month.

I got involved again later through anti-racism stuff. The subs were 10 per cent of pay at the time. I didn't sign up.

 

[planetgeli]

Subs at 10-15% of pay and yet they still couldn't produce a weekly paper printed on sheets fit to wipe your arse on?

Definitely not MI5.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Reminds me of when the RCP or G actually turned up to protest the stated aims of a Troops Out demo, even handing out leaflets about it to passers-by . Unbelievably divisive and downright stupid.

That'd be the RCP; don't forget they had their very own Irish Freedom Movement (IFM) to promote.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[likesfish]

Subs at 10-15% of pay and yet they still couldn't produce a weekly paper printed on sheets fit to wipe your arse on?

Definitely not MI5.

Mi5 would want double that and would be even be more unreadable

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Fuck the SWP. Bunch of rape apologist cunts.

 

[equationgirl]

Fuck the SWP. Bunch of rape apologist cunts.

Yes, this.

 

[chilango]

I doubt they're much of an asset to anyone these days...

 

[Anton]

Trotskyism was always supported in the Cold War, and so probably there are some state assets in the leadership of the SWP, Counterfire, and the groups they dominate, such as STWC, UAF, etc.

remember - a trotskyist is just a stalinist out of power

 

[Shechemite]

remember - a trotskyist is just a stalinist out of power

No shit. What's the relevance to the op?

 

[SpookyFrank]

If they were a state asset that would suggest that some of the things they did had value to someone, even if that someone was just a superannuated Mi5 mandarin in a dingy office surrounded by genuine cold war era filing cabinets.

A quick look at the SWP and the hypothesis 'these people have value to someone' goes straight out the window.

 

[likesfish]

they probably have reg on part time hours keeping an eye on swp and everyone else well they do claim to want to overthrow the system and it would be quite embarrassing if they actually managed to carry out something and Mi5 had no knowledge.

 

[Beats & Pieces]

The idea of 'asset' might suggest a relational totality expressed as an 'either' / 'or'. It is far more likely that there are strategic relationships at play involving key members of the group. Not the same thing.