Spanish Political News

[Pickman's model]

I am celebrating the republic. I was on a lively march tonite with music and singing and people hugging.

Visca la republica! Visca la libertad! Libertat Jordis!

Are you out with your ruling class independence mates? Or those from further down the social scale?

 

[gosub]

What do Catalans think of a Federal EUropean taxation system?

Bump

 

[where to]

The most working-class area I can think of in Barcelon is L'Hospitalet de Llobregat. It was strongly anti-independence, whereas funky bohemian Gracia was the opposite. I've got a feeling that there is a class divide that still exists now.

I looked into this a few weeks back. I was struck that the first pro-union protests were in L'Hospitalet and wondered why that may be. My conclusion after looking at various bits of data and information was this. There was a huge in-migration from Spain in the 60s and 70s. This seems to have affected some towns particularly. The towns which boomed seem to be coastal, whereas the older towns inland (Girona/ Vic etc) which today appear to be the hotbeds of Catalan nationalism and culture (including the Catalan language) didn't experience that same growth. Because the in-migrants tended to be working class, there is a class hangover in the social/ demographic makeup of support for indy in such places. This feeds into broader cultural legacies, but is really a proxy for in-migration, rather than a reflection of a working class stance, per se, on indy. The real divide appears to be cultural. If you went to Girona or Vic, I suspect the working class would be relatively solid behind indy.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Nationalists should be allowed the vote that they would almost certainly lose.

That is kind of old now. I think they would win because in Madrid they've got this great big machine that can't stop producing independentistas by the cartload. I watched a Podemos speech today live in the catalan parliament, one step away from voting yes. It's kind of morphing into a struggle for democracy against oppression.

Catalan Nationalism, as I have encountered it, has often been very similar in character to Brit remoaner stuff. Doesn't mean that the behaviour of the Madrid government is in any way acceptable though.

The irony here being that, in the space of just two days, Junkers and co converted millions of catalans into eurosceptics.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Are you out with your ruling class independence mates? Or those from further down the social scale?

I was out with all classes tonite, old and young. there were catalan flags, feminist flags and esteladas, led by a huge model horse and people dressed as devils. They even did a couple of human towers before marching around the town. Anti-capitalist MP's from the CUP in attendance.

I'm somewhere in this crowd:

 

[J Ed]

I was out with all classes tonite, old and young. there were catalan flags, feminist flags and esteladas, led by a huge model horse and people dressed as devils. They even did a couple of human towers before marching around the town. Anti-capitalist MP's from the CUP in attendance.

I'm somewhere in this crowd:

One of the other countries on the Iberian peninsula has done one of these cross-class revolution things, actually one far more proletarian in character, and you can see how that worked out.

 

[Anudder Oik]

One of the other countries on the Iberian peninsula has done one of these cross-class revolution things, actually one far more proletarian in character, and you can see how that worked out.

You mean Portugal? It's not like you can say they shouldn't have done it. Right wing coming to power after a revolution isn't a natural law.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Are you out with your ruling class independence mates? Or those from further down the social scale?

Here's my ruling class mates.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I am proud to live and work with people who have had the courage to say enough is enough, to have stood beside people, old and young, who put their bodies in the way of trunctions and brutality, to physically claim their right to vote. I am proud to have seen the declaration of the republic today. It's been an emotional experience, something I will never forget.

Now, the fight is going to get tougher. The scum in the spanish government want to destroy catalan democracy and tonite their dogs, protexcted by impunity, were let loose in Barcelona. So far the independeista movement has insisted on being peaceful but that is going to reach its limit soon if fascists mobilize on the streets and start attacking people.

Tonite in Barcelona. Fash on the rampage. I can't believe it, there are at least 4000 militant anti-fascists in that city.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

...It's kind of morphing into a struggle for democracy against oppression.

...

Do you honestly believe that the referendum organised by a corrupt organisation, against all laws, totally unaccountable, unaccepted by the majority of people in Catalunya was democratic?

If you do believe in that sort of bullying democracy, why wouldn't you accept a fair, democratic, properly regulated, legal election in December? Everyone will have a legal vote. All votes will be counted under a regulated system. How is this any more corrupt than the referendum votes?

Still, at very best (although nobody will ever know for sure) less than 40% of the population wanted independence. A legal, fair, democratic election is the only fair option. Pro-Independence representatives have fucked themselves up - they knew the rules (or, at least they should have done, but I am beginning to wonder...).

It is all crap. It is all very sad. It can only do more harm the longer it goes on. Rayo is guilty of some real shit decisions and actions, but I can't see any good in the other camp either.

There still hasn't been any discussion about how independence will make a difference. The whole thing has simply been a Nationalistic banner waving wank fest.

 

[tim]

The irony here being that, in the space of just two days, Junkers and co converted millions of catalans into eurosceptics.

Which will make it easier to come to terms with the visa restrictions and tarrif barriers, that the EU will impose.

 

[planetgeli]

Now, the fight is going to get tougher. The scum in the spanish government want to destroy catalan democracy and tonite their dogs, protexcted by impunity, were let loose in Barcelona.

Well, me sister-in-law said the filth were in numbers this morning, stopping her from riding her bike in Trafalgar. So. Plans etc.

 

[Anudder Oik]

They are attacking independetistas. This man shouted "Libertat" and was attacked. If he had shouted Viva franco, they would have left him alone.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Fascist unionists attacking a school?

 

[Anudder Oik]

Which will make it easier to come to terms with the visa restrictions and tarrif barriers, that the EU will impose.

You have no shame.

 

[RainbowTown]

Whatever the long term outcome to this event is, and whatever the rights or wrongs, one thing I'm pretty sure upon; the resentment, the hostility, the bad feeling will remain, quietly festering away.

A political Pandora's box has been partially opened. Europe is on notice.

 

[gosub]

The irony here being that, in the space of just two days, Junkers and co converted millions of catalans into eurosceptics.

SNP fucked it in 2014 for talking bollocks rather than EFTA, If Catalonia isnt talking pan EUropean Federal taxation, they'll fuck it too.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Whatever the long term outcome to this event is, and whatever the rights or wrongs, one thing I'm pretty sure upon; the resentment, the hostility, the bad feeling will remain, quietly festering away.

A political Pandora's box has been partially opened. Europe is on notice.

Take note that it is all emenating from the ones who call themselves unionists.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Whatever the long term outcome to this event is, and whatever the rights or wrongs, one thing I'm pretty sure upon; the resentment, the hostility, the bad feeling will remain, quietly festering away.

A political Pandora's box has been partially opened. Europe is on notice.

Sadly, it's going to very messy.

 

[tim]

You have no shame.

I'm merely unconvinced that you and your Comrades are ready for the consequences of life outside the EU in a state that is not internationally recognised.All those whinging about having to pay taxes to support the poorer parts of Spain might find themselves impoverished and with nobody to bail them out.

 

[tim]

Take note that it is all emenating from the ones who call themselves unionists.

Says the man so willing to brand those who disagree with him as fascists and Nazis

 

[Raheem]

A political Pandora's box has been partially opened. Europe is on notice.

What does the notice say?

 

[SpookyFrank]

What does the notice say?

"Trouble at mill"

 

[gosub]

What does the notice say?

Europe isn't ready.

 

[Raheem]

Europe isn't ready.

So just stick it in for another ten minutes.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

I find it contradictory that on a so called left wing/libertarian forum no one is celebrating the declaration of a REPUBLIC. I think you are all trolls.

Or we are not so caught up in the understandable daily excitement which you are experiencing that we are less convinced than you are about what exactly is really happening. It's a possibility for you to consider.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

I was in Girona last week. It's visibly pro-independence but talking to others the referendum doesn't conclude anything & there's a huge silent other. Interesting few days coming ahead.

 

[Favelado]

I was in Girona last week. It's visibly pro-independence but talking to others the referendum doesn't conclude anything & there's a huge silent other. Interesting few days coming ahead.

View attachment 119005

Dunno about Girona. About as pro-independence as you can get.

 

[Pickman's model]

Says the man so willing to brand those who disagree with him as fascists and Nazis

What's auld tim pool got to say on the subject - he was in the Iberian peninsula at the start of the month

 

[Favelado]

Do you honestly believe that the referendum organised by a corrupt organisation, against all laws, totally unaccountable, unaccepted by the majority of people in Catalunya was democratic?

If you do believe in that sort of bullying democracy, why wouldn't you accept a fair, democratic, properly regulated, legal election in December? Everyone will have a legal vote. All votes will be counted under a regulated system. How is this any more corrupt than the referendum votes?

Still, at very best (although nobody will ever know for sure) less than 40% of the population wanted independence. A legal, fair, democratic election is the only fair option. Pro-Independence representatives have fucked themselves up - they knew the rules (or, at least they should have done, but I am beginning to wonder...).

It is all crap. It is all very sad. It can only do more harm the longer it goes on. Rayo is guilty of some real shit decisions and actions, but I can't see any good in the other camp either.

There still hasn't been any discussion about how independence will make a difference. The whole thing has simply been a Nationalistic banner waving wank fest.

Best post I've ever seen from you. Spot on.