Spanish Political News

[tim]

Will this end up wiyh one group of politicians pretending they are running an independent country and thr other group ignoring them? Do Puigemont and his allies actually have the resources to do anything concrete?

 

[planetgeli]

Barcelona are going to piss this league.

 

[RainbowTown]

Whatever the outcome:

leges sine moribus vanae

 

[Tankus]

methinks Puigdemont is going to see plenty of concrete ...and iron bars

 

[mojo pixy]

Whatever the outcome:
leges sine moribus vanae

More like Cui Bono?

 

[tim]

methinks Puigdemont is going to see plenty of concrete ...and iron bars

If the Spanish government have any sense, which they probably don't, he'll be left to assert independence while tbey carry on running the state

 

[RainbowTown]

More like Cui Bono?

Like I say for whatever the long term outcome of this event is.

 

[tim]

More like Cui Bono?

As I said many posts back,the UK benefits from this crisis as it will, if people do start getting arrested and things turn violent, as this will become a bigger EU crisis than BREXIT,and create a level of instability that a sensible British government could take advantage of.

MI6 and GCHQ are pulling the strings of this.They do this sort of stuff so much more subtly than those Russians

 

[mojo pixy]

There'll always be one more thing, till the weight of crises cracks the EU apart. It's not a question of if, is it, it's just when at this stage

 

[mojo pixy]

nvm

 

[Tankus]

If the Spanish government have any sense, which they probably don't, he'll be left to assert independence while tbey carry on running the state

So Madrid forces a re election ..Puigdemont and his amigo's get a criminal record and can't run ...
hes going to need a good mini me

 

[gosub]

What do Catalans think of a Federal EUropean taxation system?

 

[J Ed]

As I said many posts back,the UK benefits from this crisis as it will, if people do start getting arrested and things turn violent, as this will become a bigger EU crisis than BREXIT,and create a level of instability that a sensible British government could take advantage of.

MI6 and GCHQ are pulling the strings of this.They do this sort of stuff so much more subtly than those Russians

This is a really stupid post.

 

[tim]

This is a really stupid post.

Why the UK clearly could benefit from a Spanish constitutional crisis. And "friendly" powers clearly do interfere in the politics of their allies when it is to their advantage.

 

[J Ed]

Why the UK clearly could benefit from a Spanish constitutional crisis. And "friendly" powers clearly do interfere in the politics of their allies when it is to their advantage.

Go on then, tell us what GCHQ and Mi6 are doing and what specific strategic goals they are trying to achieve.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Co-founder of the Radical Independence Campaign in Scotland. Left the SWP to form the ISG with others unhappy with SWP direction. The group went into alliance with the SSP to form RISE.

Was their split from the swp legal?

 

[Anudder Oik]

The people who walked out of the vote in the catalan parliament today are the PP and Ciutadans, extreme right wing parties verging on becoming openly falangist. They are literally the sons and grandaughters of Franco's burocracy and are embroiled in over 1000 corruption cases. They hate Catalonia and their politicians who run in elections here see it as some sort of tour of ireland during the troubles. They rub people up the wrong way for a few years in Catalonia then get promoted in Madrid. If they walked out then fuck them. The majority in the parliament, who represent the majority, voted for the republic. Or do the scum who walked out somehow annul that majority that voted for independence?

The independence movement is cross class, so what? It is in essence a progressive force trying to move forward in a Spain dominated and held back by a reactionary right wing establishment that openly disprespects democratic values such as separation of politics from the justice system.

I know dozens of independentistas, from all classes, and the feeling here is that we can only obtain social, historical and political justice, if we seperate from the reactionary and antiquated spanish state. Incredibly, the PP, after decades of lies on just about every issue, from the Prestige disaster to the Yak to the train crashes, to the terror attacks, still rules Spain, but here, where people are more critical, they only have 8% representation, yet every decision to advance here is vetoed by Madrid. I repeat, a party with 8% representation in Catalonia vetoes every decision made in Catalonia.

Perhaps the real losers in this are the spanish people because most progressive voices have been drowned out by a mass upsurge in knuckedragging oppressive nationalism that has reared its head to rally around its own oppressors. Spanish nationalism is the pole opposite of catalan nationalism, the former is colonialist and bigotted, the latter wants to free itself from the former, peacefully and respectfully.

 

[Pickman's model]

As I said many posts back,the UK benefits from this crisis as it will, if people do start getting arrested and things turn violent, as this will become a bigger EU crisis than BREXIT,and create a level of instability that a sensible British government could take advantage of.

MI6 and GCHQ are pulling the strings of this.They do this sort of stuff so much more subtly than those Russians

We do not have a sensible British government

 

[Anudder Oik]

When the politicians, including anti-capitalist left and some Podemos, voted today, they had to do it in a secret ballot, depositing one by one a piece of paper in a ballot box. In this way it will make it harder for the spanish state to persecute people in the event that Catalonia fails to resist the forthcoming undemocratic onslaught. I have no doubt that if they could, the reactionary spanish state would conduct DNA tests on those ballot papers in its witchhunt of the perpetrators.

The video shows crowds in Barcelona watching live as the ballots are opened. To describe the emotion here is impossible. Try to imagine half the people you know or see in a day, with tears in there eyes. In the video they cheer for every yes vote then go full on euphoric when independence is delcared.

 

[Pickman's model]

So Madrid forces a re election ..Puigdemont and his amigo's get a criminal record and can't run ...
hes going to need a good mini me

I hope you get the job

 

[Anudder Oik]

I find it contradictory that on a so called left wing/libertarian forum no one is celebrating the declaration of a REPUBLIC. I think you are all trolls.

 

[Anudder Oik]

So Madrid forces a re election ..Puigdemont and his amigo's get a criminal record and can't run ...
hes going to need a good mini me

See Rufian. A troublemaker in the spanish parliament.

 

[Raheem]

I find it contradictory that on a so called left wing/libertarian forum no one is celebrating the declaration of a REPUBLIC.

Well if you won't do it, why should anyone else?

 

[tim]

We do not have a sensible British government

Not yet, but I'm sure MI5 are at work manoeuvring Chuka, Vince and Ken into a position where they can take charge in the national interest.

 

[Pickman's model]

I find it contradictory that on a so called left wing/libertarian forum no one is celebrating the declaration of a REPUBLIC. I think you are all trolls.

Not all republics are left wing, chuck.

 

[planetgeli]

I find it contradictory that on a so called left wing/libertarian forum no one is celebrating the declaration of a REPUBLIC. I think you are all trolls.

Because it ain’t no proletarian uprising is it.

 

[mojo pixy]

It looks set to be more like a kind of bourgeois downsitting.

 

[J Ed]

I find it contradictory that on a so called left wing/libertarian forum no one is celebrating the declaration of a REPUBLIC. I think you are all trolls.

I think Podemos' position is generally sensible, the plurinacionalidad route is the right one to go down but the Catalan Nationalists should be allowed the vote that they would almost certainly lose. You know as well as the rest of us how dominant right-wing Catalan Nationalism is, I suspect all of those of us who know enough about the topic to discuss it are aware of that too.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Well if you won't do it, why should anyone else?

I am celebrating the republic. I was on a lively march tonite with music and singing and people hugging.

Visca la republica! Visca la libertad! Libertat Jordis!

 

[J Ed]

It looks set to be more like a kind of bourgeois downsitting.

Catalan Nationalism, as I have encountered it, has often been very similar in character to Brit remoaner stuff. Doesn't mean that the behaviour of the Madrid government is in any way acceptable though.