Spanish Political News
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Threshers_Flail
Well-Known Member
New political landscape pollsters ain't got a clue. Maybe they favour the urban vote over the rural??
They aren't. Plenty of people who were otherwise sympathetic to the Podemos/IU cause have been roundly put off by Iglesias' antics in the past few months.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
That's true. He has made himself personally unpopular.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
Not too far off.
ska invita
back on the other side
I missed it - what did he do?
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
Some of the more vicious attacks on opposition politicians post-December elections turned some neutrals and centre-left types against him. He is also accused of being too arrogant generally. He probably comes across as pretty punchable to a lot of people. He's also upset some Podemos supporters at times with power grabs to turn it into a more traditional, centralised party, rather than the circles and flat hierarchy concept it started out with. There was a big spat between him and Podemos's number 2, Errejón. The latter also accused him of turning off voters with his more scathing attacks.
I'm happy to see him tear into whoever, but that doesn't mean you win votes that way.
JHE will be able to explain it better than I can, as usual.
ska invita
back on the other side
who has been shortsighted?
Riklet
procrastinación
The Spanish voting public!
Like I said, Spain is a mess. Things are only very marginally better economically than when I moved here in 2011. The PP has made a lot of things worse and I definitely feel things are less free.
There is a lot of pressure going on in Spanish society and seeing 5 more years of right wing bullshit will truly break a lot of good things. It will also serve to keep Spain stuck in the past, harping back to the glory days of godknowswhen. When you could report your neighbours to the local facist hitsquad and torture animals without anyone complaining, I guess.
I think those who voted PP hoping for economic stability were shortdighted and naive. Those voting for the PSOE hoping for something new or more progressive likewise. And the morons on the left who have all fallen out and fucked it up by infighting rather than focusing on real material socio-economic issues too.
I genuinely thought podemos unidos would do a lot better though, and it's made me realise I live in a bubble. 25% unemployment and social misery isnt enough to get Spanish people voting for anything too radical.
Every politically sound Spanish person I know is depressed with the result. I can see a government emerging but who knows where it will take Spain or how many more will leave or fall into poverty even in the rest of this year. I am fed up with everything and considering going myself in the future, or at least from Madrid anyway (ok this isnt just due to politics)!
Like I said, Spain is a mess. Things are only very marginally better economically than when I moved here in 2011. The PP has made a lot of things worse and I definitely feel things are less free.
There is a lot of pressure going on in Spanish society and seeing 5 more years of right wing bullshit will truly break a lot of good things. It will also serve to keep Spain stuck in the past, harping back to the glory days of godknowswhen. When you could report your neighbours to the local facist hitsquad and torture animals without anyone complaining, I guess.
I think those who voted PP hoping for economic stability were shortdighted and naive. Those voting for the PSOE hoping for something new or more progressive likewise. And the morons on the left who have all fallen out and fucked it up by infighting rather than focusing on real material socio-economic issues too.
I genuinely thought podemos unidos would do a lot better though, and it's made me realise I live in a bubble. 25% unemployment and social misery isnt enough to get Spanish people voting for anything too radical.
Every politically sound Spanish person I know is depressed with the result. I can see a government emerging but who knows where it will take Spain or how many more will leave or fall into poverty even in the rest of this year. I am fed up with everything and considering going myself in the future, or at least from Madrid anyway (ok this isnt just due to politics)!
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Anudder Oik
heinous pointless bellend/fucking gobshite muppet
Everyone I know feels the same, more people are speaking about leaving altogether or hoping that Catalonia will break away from Spain. Services are being run down, health services in Catalonia quite seriously.
I feel however, that PP voters are not so much shortsighted or naive but something quite other than that, seeing as they have voted "again" for a party with over 400 members arrested on charges of corruption. It flies in the face of logic and common decency that a corrupt party is not punished in the polls.
This week in a village on the north east coast of Spain, a priest gave a sermon to open the local village festive week, in which he stated, literally:
"A les dones els correspon estar-se a casa i ser submises als homes, com Maria",
A woman's place is the home, where she should be submissive to men, like Maria".
I shit you not
El capellà de la Bisbal del Penedès: "Les dones han de ser submises als homes"
Spain is fucked.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Surprised this threads not been bumped with the current fight in the PSOE.
With echoes of the Corbyn situation it does show the fundamental problems facing "social-democratic" parties throughout the West (maybe worth starting a thread specifically on that score).
With echoes of the Corbyn situation it does show the fundamental problems facing "social-democratic" parties throughout the West (maybe worth starting a thread specifically on that score).
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
I have read about it, though not posted about it partly because at the moment I find Spanish politics too depressing to spend much time thinking about - we have enough of that in Britain already. The parallels with the Labour Party in Britain don't quite work, Sánchez is a pretty committed neoliberal. In the longer term it would be fantastic news for whatever left formation runs for election next. González is a truly loathsome figure.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Yes I wasn't trying to imply that the situation is an exact replica of the UK Labour Party more just that there are some of the same factors at play.
Threshers_Flail
Well-Known Member
I think the sole similarity with UK Labour is that there has been a failed coup within the party, as J Ed said Corbyn and Sanchez have fuck all in common. I'm not sure how it may benefit any future left formation as if Sanchez stays on he'll be too weak to oversee any pact with Podemos, and if he is replaced then his successor will be even more to the right and would be more likely to allow PP to govern than form a pact with Podemos.
Aye, it's depressing.
Aye, it's depressing.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I think there's more than that, there's the the external pressures on these former social-democratic parties that are the reason these internal fights. Sure the particulars are different in different countries but there's a commonality.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Aye. Absolute lunacy, when has such a situation ever benefitted the minor party in the long term?
JHE
.
I don't really want to get into this at the moment (coz I want to watch a bit of surprisingly good American telly), but I don't think there is much prospect of a PP-PSOE lash-up. There may well be a greater chance now of PSOE (or some PSOE MPs) abstaining to allow a PP or PP-Ciudadanos government to be installed and a third general election avoided.
If this happens, the PSOE line, allowing PP to form a govt, will be quite popular. People don't want a 3rd gen election and do want to have a proper govt. Support for PSOE allowing its opponents to form a govt will include maybe two thirds of PSOE voters.
That leaves the other third of PSOE voters. What will they do if their party decides to help PP back into government (albeit a weak minority government, maybe a weak minority coalition govt)? I don't know, but at the very least it would allow Unidos Podemos to insist that it is the real anti-PP party and one possibility, which I bet has been in Sánchez's mind, is that many of that most anti-PP third of PSOE voters might decide either to abstain in future or switch support to Unidos Podemos. If that happened, Unidos Podemos would become the second most important party (or electoral list). PSOE would be relegated to third position: "sorpasso".
(If a minor party is going to suffer through participation in coalition, that party is likely to be Ciudadanos.)
If this happens, the PSOE line, allowing PP to form a govt, will be quite popular. People don't want a 3rd gen election and do want to have a proper govt. Support for PSOE allowing its opponents to form a govt will include maybe two thirds of PSOE voters.
That leaves the other third of PSOE voters. What will they do if their party decides to help PP back into government (albeit a weak minority government, maybe a weak minority coalition govt)? I don't know, but at the very least it would allow Unidos Podemos to insist that it is the real anti-PP party and one possibility, which I bet has been in Sánchez's mind, is that many of that most anti-PP third of PSOE voters might decide either to abstain in future or switch support to Unidos Podemos. If that happened, Unidos Podemos would become the second most important party (or electoral list). PSOE would be relegated to third position: "sorpasso".
(If a minor party is going to suffer through participation in coalition, that party is likely to be Ciudadanos.)
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petee
no gods, no malarkey
JHE
.
The Federal Committee of the Socialist Party met today and debated whether or not Socialist MPs should abstain in Congress to allow Mariano Rajoy to be installed again as Prime Minister. On a motion to abstain, the voting was as follows.
In favour: 139
Against: 96
Didn't vote: 2
It is now virtually certain that Rajoy will continue as PM and will lead a weak minority government.
One of the people who voted in favour of abstention is Susana Díaz, the President of Andalucia, who is often talked about as a likely leader of PSOE. Opponents included the Catalans.
It's going to be interesting to hear what people say about the political situation this week. My guess is that many will be relieved, even quite pleased, but will grumble that if the politicians are willing to allow Rajoy to form a government now, why couldn't they have done that nine months ago, back in January, following the election on December 20?
(This may be accompanied by the usual spot of Spanish self-flagellation: our politicians are useless and corrupt, they never resign even when they are found with their hands in the till, in Europe we are the worst at English, our national football team has fallen from World Cup glory to mediocrity, the French say that Africa begins at the Pyrenees etc.)
How will today's (belated) decision affect PSOE? My hunch is: badly. A lot of people will think the Socialists have finally done the right thing, but, as is clear from today's vote, there are also a lot who take the opposite view. Podemos is obviously going to try to take advantage, presenting themselves as the real opposition to PP and maybe they will manage to grab some very anti-PP people who previously voted PSOE.
In favour: 139
Against: 96
Didn't vote: 2
It is now virtually certain that Rajoy will continue as PM and will lead a weak minority government.
One of the people who voted in favour of abstention is Susana Díaz, the President of Andalucia, who is often talked about as a likely leader of PSOE. Opponents included the Catalans.
It's going to be interesting to hear what people say about the political situation this week. My guess is that many will be relieved, even quite pleased, but will grumble that if the politicians are willing to allow Rajoy to form a government now, why couldn't they have done that nine months ago, back in January, following the election on December 20?
(This may be accompanied by the usual spot of Spanish self-flagellation: our politicians are useless and corrupt, they never resign even when they are found with their hands in the till, in Europe we are the worst at English, our national football team has fallen from World Cup glory to mediocrity, the French say that Africa begins at the Pyrenees etc.)
How will today's (belated) decision affect PSOE? My hunch is: badly. A lot of people will think the Socialists have finally done the right thing, but, as is clear from today's vote, there are also a lot who take the opposite view. Podemos is obviously going to try to take advantage, presenting themselves as the real opposition to PP and maybe they will manage to grab some very anti-PP people who previously voted PSOE.
Riklet
procrastinación
Damn.
An end to a glorious year of no government, where none of the useless cunts could cock it up any more than it already is.
Jesus christ it is utterly sickening than Rajoy is staying on though. But it's for the best long term as this will destroy the PSOE, the PP corruption allegations will continue and very surely they will be a weak and impotent government which collapses in the next few years.
To echo a favourite phrase on urban - with almost no far right in Spain... time for the left to fill the gap!
An end to a glorious year of no government, where none of the useless cunts could cock it up any more than it already is.
Jesus christ it is utterly sickening than Rajoy is staying on though. But it's for the best long term as this will destroy the PSOE, the PP corruption allegations will continue and very surely they will be a weak and impotent government which collapses in the next few years.
To echo a favourite phrase on urban - with almost no far right in Spain... time for the left to fill the gap!
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
https://www.ft.com/content/d0935c66-9e07-11e6-891e-abe238dee8e2
Sorry FT link probably £wall useless.
Great news for Podemos. It has got them off the hook for `scuppering` (in the eyes of some) a left coalition over independence referenda. PSOE won't collapse but they will leak votes.
JHE
.
Iglesias' contribution to the debate this evening could be summarised as: Tomorrow belongs to me!
His argument: the coming Rajoy government is just an epilogue; there is a new Spain that recognises its plurinational nature and the right to decide, it wants an end to corruption, unemployment, economic exile, gross inequality and the two-party system of PP and PSOE; Unidos Podemos aspires simply to be the instrument of this new Spain; for the moment it will be that instrument in opposition, but sooner or later this instrument of the new Spain will govern.
I suppose he believes it and, yes, Unidos Podemos may well benefit from PSOE's decision to allow Rajoy to form a government. Perhaps they will succeed in overtaking PSOE as the main party of the left, but that's not to say Iglesias' optimism is justified. Can they progress from where they are now - with something like 20% of the vote (a considerable achievement, but not enough to get what they want) - to a position where they can lead a 'social majority', as they aspire to?
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