Six Nations 2021

[bendeus]

Yeah. That would certainly put le chat amongst the pigeons

 

[gosub]

Not if we beat Italy and France in Paris in three weeks. Subsequent games will be for placings only right?

Obviously. But France could do the slam themselves....apart from covid making that unlikely

 

[bendeus]

Obviously. But France could do the slam themselves....apart from covid making that unlikely

They certainly could - they're the best team in the competition after all. If it goes ahead I'm not sure how quickly their players will have recovered and whether they'll be able to field a full strength side. Lots of variables

 

[gosub]

They certainly could - they're the best team in the competition after all. If it goes ahead I'm not sure how quickly their players will have recovered and whether they'll be able to field a full strength side. Lots of variables

Wales are getting better though. And some stuff to learn from in that game. I'm likeing that Wales start from the start these days rather than jplting into life ten minutes in, a the new kicker is bedding in. (not that a fan of kicking rugby. Speaking of which Id of loved for Farrell to have been sent off (just coz I can't stand Farrell). The ref was right coz a ref isn't wrong (he may well really be right, but I doubt he did much for his offers of games. Makes up for that French game a few years back that could n't end til Wales lost.

What I didn't understand straight after that first row Farrell did a seriously good kick to corner and then opted for the penalty

 

[two sheds]

Here's that first try again. There's a significant chunk of time between the ref calling time on and the kick going to the wing. By the time it does the English defenders to the right of the screen have fanned out and are in position. Ford and, I think Watson, on the other hand are wandering slowly over with their backs to Biggar, who has spotted the opportunity and executed brilliantly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this try or the officiating, and the shrill bleating from Johnno and his fellow pundits (including the Welsh ones) served to set up an incorrect narrative that England were stiffed by the ref. On the evidence of this there was no stiffing of any kind, just an inexcusable failure to read the game and to defend effectively.

We were clearly not ready . Clearly taking a bit of a breather and a chat between ourselves about this and that . You're just not taking into consideration that he's French.

 

[1927]

Oh, and the fact thst England had their water carriers on is entirely immaterial, young master Farrell

Theres an argument that they shouldn't even have been on the pitch!

 

[Elpenor]

Having slept on it I feel that the ref’s decisions were fairly sound, but marred by poor communication and their reluctance to engage with players. England will need to stop giving away so many penalties, perhaps they will be seen more favourably by referees then.

Gauzere has form for this, and it is sadly a hallmark of French referees.

 

[1927]

Having slept on it I feel that the ref’s decisions were fairly sound, but marred by poor communication and their reluctance to engage with players. England will need to stop giving away so many penalties, perhaps they will be seen more favourably by referees then.

Gauzere has form for this, and it is sadly a hallmark of French referees.

Top post!

 

[bendeus]

Theres an argument that they shouldn't even have been on the pitch!

Yup. Nobody had signalled a kick for the posts and it wasn't a conversion so no, they shouldn't have been there.

 

[bendeus]

Having slept on it I feel that the ref’s decisions were fairly sound, but marred by poor communication and their reluctance to engage with players. England will need to stop giving away so many penalties, perhaps they will be seen more favourably by referees then.

Gauzere has form for this, and it is sadly a hallmark of French referees.

It's pretty clear that Farrell had fouled his relationship with Gauzere very early doors. That's poor captaincy.

 

[two sheds]

Telegraph so I won't link but:

World Rugby referee chief Joel Jutge says Gauzere has acknowledged that he was wrong in awarding both contentious first-half Wales scores

“I think one has to be transparent, say what one thinks rather than let things fester,” Jutge said. “In this game there were two unfortunate incidents, which were not simple to manage. I know from having spoken to him by phone on Sunday morning that Pascal Gauzere recognises that himself.”

The first incident occurred when Gauzere told England captain Owen Farrell to talk to his players about ill discipline, indicating “time off”, before blowing his whistle to indicate ‘time on’ and allowing Wales' Dan Biggar to take a penalty while the visitors were still in a huddle under the posts. Biggar kicked to the corner where Josh Adams gathered and scored.

Former England captain Martin Johnson described it as “appalling refereeing” and former Wales captain Sam Warburton admitted he would have been “fuming” had he been in Farrell’s position.

“From the moment when the referee says ‘time on’ the game can recommence,” Jutge explained. “Except that it was on him [Gauzere] to make sure the English had had material time to reorganise themselves, because it was him who had asked the captain to speak to his players.”

See I was right we were off talking amongst ourselves and you lot cheated because we weren't ready

And the second one:

here is a balance to be struck and in this case, a simple bit of common sense would have sufficed. There is a loss of control, the ball goes forward, so it’s a knock on. Pascal looked at the situation on Sunday morning and he is the first to admit it.

HA!

 

[bendeus]

This reeks to me of World Rugby bending to the pressure of English outrage. Reminds me of Barnes vs. NZ and the fact thst his employers just stepped back and washed their hands of him. I still think both tries were fine and would question whether Jutge would be abasing himself and hanging his employee out to dry to the same extent if Wales had been on the other side of the decisions.

 

[two sheds]

Yeh he is french though

 

[sleaterkinney]

Telegraph so I won't link but:



See I was right we were off talking amongst ourselves and you lot cheated because we weren't ready

It was bad refereeing, having told him to have a chat and called time off he should have waited for that to be finished before calling time back on. The second one he lost control of the ball forward, the winger himself knew it.

 

[two sheds]

We'd have won if he'd awarded those two tries


.... oh wait

 

[bendeus]

Funny that nobody is mentioning the clear forward pass in the build up to Watson's try, innit?

E2A: or that in both try/no try instances Wales had kickable penalty advantage and that therefore the tally would more likely have been 8 points to the bad rather than 14

 

[bendeus]

It was bad refereeing, having told him to have a chat and called time off he should have waited for that to be finished before calling time back on. The second one he lost control of the ball forward, the winger himself knew it.

It was finished as I've clearly explained above.

 

[bendeus]

Nobody asked Farrell to call a huddle, nobody asked him to signal the water carriers to come on. Nobody asked his team to turn their backs on the oppo when a kick had not been signalled. Nobody asked Ford or Watson to amble back into their defensive set with all the urgency of sloths on mogadon in clear contrast to their team mates on the other side. Nobody asked those players to fail to note Adams taking up position on the wing for precisely the play that occurred. I really can't see what the controversy is: you never, EVER turn your backs on the oppo in that kind of situation. This is taught at age grade level, let alone elite. Here's what Englishman Stuart Barnes had to say about it:

Blame it on the Frenchman. With Wales celebrating a quick-witted try, Owen Farrell implored Pascal Gaüzère to overturn it. Water carriers were still on the pitch. The whistle to restart the game was hurried. Play resumed too quickly for an England team who, George Ford apart, were unprepared for a legitimate tap-penalty. They were slowly emerging from their huddle, having apparently been told to cut their penalty count.

The Farrell logic, as explained to the referee, is one where the infringing team receives the benefits. In particular the advantage of killing the tempo of a game. Everything Gaüzère did in those moments before the Josh Adams try was within the laws. The law violations were all English.

Enough referee-bashing. England lost because of their indiscipline. They have conceded 40 penalties in three rounds of the Six Nations. Of the 14 penalties in Cardiff, not one was disputable. No dodgy 50-50 scrum calls. Just a steady stream of dumb on-field decisions. Call it, The Art of Losing Rugby.

I concur.

 

[two sheds]

Blame it on the Frenchman.

Well this is what I've been saying

 

[1927]

See I was right we were off talking amongst ourselves and you lot cheated because we weren't ready

There's a difference between a poor refereeing decision and cheating. We didnt cheat!

AT the end of the day England lost cos of their own indiscipline, the fact their players hadn't played much rugby and the fact that Eddie is coach.

 

[1927]

I concur.

I bet you haven't agreed with Barnsey very often!

 

[bendeus]

I bet you haven't agreed with Barnsey very often!

No. This may be the first.

 

[bendeus]

There's a difference between a poor refereeing decision and cheating. We didnt cheat!

AT the end of the day England lost cos of their own indiscipline, the fact their players hadn't played much rugby and the fact that Eddie is coach.

They may also have lost because, y'know, we weren't too bad.

 

[bendeus]

Also, this:

 

[two sheds]

Also, this:

THAT WAS A FAIR CHARGE-DOWN REFEREE :MAD:

 

[Elpenor]

I would be surprised if we see M. Gauzere for the next few rounds of games

 

[bendeus]

I would be surprised if we see M. Gauzere for the next few rounds of games

Yeah, apparently he will now only be running the line and not reffing any further 6N games.

 

[bendeus]

Just what is it with English players grabbing Welshmen's genitals?

 

[gawkrodger]

New Squidge! Complete with wide angle of the Adam try

 

[bendeus]

New Squidge! Complete with wide angle of the Adam try

Yeah. I hope it puts to bed the recently minted myth that England were hard done by for the first try.

The second seems to occupy an anomalous grey area in the laws whereby you could argue equally convincingly that it was a try and that it wasn't. My gut tells me it was a knock on but I can fully understand the arguments to the contrary.

Really good analysis either way, do the England fans on here share his sentiment that they've got much less to worry about than it looks?