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Russell Brand on Revolution

Diana9 said:
No, I would expect individuals to arise from the community who have proven their commitment to serve the people, to run for office.
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how does that work if nobody is supposed to be voting for anybody?

or do we wait for brand to give the green light to vote for whichever party he endorses / launch his own party?

what if there are already individuals who have arisen from the community worth voting for now? Should we all still not vote, or should we vote for them? What if they're mostly inline with your thinking, but differ on a few issues? Still vote for them, or continue not voting until your perfect candidate comes along?
 
free spirit said:
how does that work if nobody is supposed to be voting for anybody?

or do we wait for brand to give the green light to vote for whichever party he endorses / launch his own party?

what if there are already individuals who have arisen from the community worth voting for now? Should we all still not vote, or should we vote for them? What if they're mostly inline with your thinking, but differ on a few issues? Still vote for them, or continue not voting until your perfect candidate comes along?
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I think you missed it -- he's saying don't vote for those who don't represent you. If they do, then by all means vote for them.

Who is presenting the people? Got any names? Seen any positive results?
 
Diana9 said:
I think you missed it -- he's saying don't vote for those who don't represent you. If they do, then by all means vote for them.
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Yep, I have missed that nuance to what he's saying.

I guess it depends to what degree someone has to actually represent my views before being worth my vote.

Diana9 said:
Who is presenting the people? Got any names? Seen any positive results?
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there's very few who have actually got anywhere in the UK, and none that are absolutely perfect.

The greens are making waves about being anti-austerity, anti-neoliberalist, caroline lucas (their one MP) talks a good talk, but their only council hasn't exactly given a lot of cause for confidence that they'd be much better if in power.

I've been following the stuff a former member of UK band the happy mondays has been up to in Salford launching a party called the reality party to stand himself and a few candidates elsewhere, his heart's definitely in the right place, and he's been quite active in supporting anti-fracking campaigns and other campaigns. There are also various other small leftwing parties of various hues standing candidates in different contituencies.

Round me, the closest to my views in policy terms would be the alliance for green socialism, but unfortunately they're also pretty much useless at campaigns and obviously stood no chance, so last time I voted and did a bit of campaigning for the lib dems in an effort to ensure the tories didn't retake the seat, and at the time their manifesto policies had some reasonable stuff in it. As killer B alluded to, that didn't exactly work out very well as they ended up in coalition for the tories and immediately ditched virtually everything that had made me consider them worth giving a chance to.

I think it's a bit different over here as there often are quite a few options on the ballots for MPs, and often will be a pretty left wing candidate from one group or another. If brand were shouting from the rooftops for people to vote in droves for whichever candidate made most sense to them rather than the 'vote labour with no illusions' / anybody but the tories option then that'd be a bit more interesting - if that actually is his message, then I don't think that's what's coming through from the media coverage (including the articles he's written that I've read).

UKIP have effectively risen at the opposite end of the political spectrum by breaking the same sort of fears of people wasting their vote with a UKIP vote, plus appealing to those who otherwise wouldn't have voted. I think a major opportunity has been missed in the last few years for a real left wing party / coalition to be formed / emerge form the shadows to do the same on the left, particularly given that there was 10% or so of the electorate who'd voted lib dem because they'd viewed them as being left of centre, who were / are looking for a credible alternative to vote for. The greens are now benefiting by default from this, but whether they really will prove to be different to the lib dem experience is fairly questionable - there's certainly lots of suspicion of them from the rest of the left.
 
Diana9 said:
Actually, I don't think that's what he's talking about, he's not setting himself as a leader, and he doesn't advocate that there be one. Those days are over. My understanding is that he's saying people should become more engaged in their local communities. They should organize themselves. He successfully supported the tenants who fought against eviction in an east London community, he's encouraging people to stand with Wallmart workers for a pay raise, etc. He is inspiring people to think of ways they can become involved. He has explained over and over again that he's not saying "don't ever vote," just "don't vote" for people who don't represent you."

As to your question, "are people just lazy?" I think Russell Brand sees that people feel paralyzed. Partly because they've been indoctrinated to believe "resistance is futile." He's trying to change people's thinking, to make people realize how much power they really have to change things, if only they ACT.
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Although indoctrination plays a part, it's a fairly weak force - in an information-rich society it's difficult to successfully indoctrinate people who don't wish to be indoctrinated. At best you can ensure that your (i.e. The Establishment) discourse is hegemonic. Possibly the largest motivator for inaction, in my opinion, is that people will not revolt or rebel if they have anything to lose - families; property; employment etc.
As for power to change, there's a problem with change within the existing system - there are very few mechanisms by which change can be realised, and those mechanisms are controlled by "them", not by us. Getting turkeys to vote for Christmas will be difficult, which is why the only assured way of realising change is full-on revolution, a dissolution of the current political system, and the building of a truly democratic society, where everyone within that society who wants a say, gets a say, not just the "right" to vote every couple of years. And guess what? More people are scared of revolution than they are of repression, unfortunately.
 
Russell Brand's advice: "Run your own communities with existing technology."

I strongly believe we must create a network of online local communities, using existing technology.

In light of this, I came across this lovely Argentinian woman speaking at a TedTalk. She has some interesting things to say about "How to Upgrade Democracy in the Internet Era." I depart somewhat from her idea of creating new parties. Not that I exclude the idea completely, but I think candidates will invariably be absorbed into the existing system. We've tried working from the inside, I believe we have to work from outside the system in order to change it. I am therefore more interested in people using the technology to "run their own communities" to create alternative models of democracy.

Anyway, have a look:

http://www.ted.com/talks/pia_mancin...acy_for_the_internet_era?language=en#t-410055

Transcript

http://www.ted.com/talks/pia_mancin...y_for_the_internet_era/transcript?language=en
 
free spirit said:
Yep, I have missed that nuance to what he's saying.

I guess it depends to what degree someone has to actually represent my views before being worth my vote.


there's very few who have actually got anywhere in the UK, and none that are absolutely perfect.

The greens are making waves about being anti-austerity, anti-neoliberalist, caroline lucas (their one MP) talks a good talk, but their only council hasn't exactly given a lot of cause for confidence that they'd be much better if in power.

I've been following the stuff a former member of UK band the happy mondays has been up to in Salford launching a party called the reality party to stand himself and a few candidates elsewhere, his heart's definitely in the right place, and he's been quite active in supporting anti-fracking campaigns and other campaigns. There are also various other small leftwing parties of various hues standing candidates in different contituencies.

Round me, the closest to my views in policy terms would be the alliance for green socialism, but unfortunately they're also pretty much useless at campaigns and obviously stood no chance, so last time I voted and did a bit of campaigning for the lib dems in an effort to ensure the tories didn't retake the seat, and at the time their manifesto policies had some reasonable stuff in it. As killer B alluded to, that didn't exactly work out very well as they ended up in coalition for the tories and immediately ditched virtually everything that had made me consider them worth giving a chance to.

I think it's a bit different over here as there often are quite a few options on the ballots for MPs, and often will be a pretty left wing candidate from one group or another. If brand were shouting from the rooftops for people to vote in droves for whichever candidate made most sense to them rather than the 'vote labour with no illusions' / anybody but the tories option then that'd be a bit more interesting - if that actually is his message, then I don't think that's what's coming through from the media coverage (including the articles he's written that I've read).

UKIP have effectively risen at the opposite end of the political spectrum by breaking the same sort of fears of people wasting their vote with a UKIP vote, plus appealing to those who otherwise wouldn't have voted. I think a major opportunity has been missed in the last few years for a real left wing party / coalition to be formed / emerge form the shadows to do the same on the left, particularly given that there was 10% or so of the electorate who'd voted lib dem because they'd viewed them as being left of centre, who were / are looking for a credible alternative to vote for. The greens are now benefiting by default from this, but whether they really will prove to be different to the lib dem experience is fairly questionable - there's certainly lots of suspicion of them from the rest of the left.
Click to expand...

By creating so many new parties don't we run the risk of becoming even more fractured and divisive? There are only so many pieces in the pie chart, and you can bet that the traditional parties will take the bigger share, if for no other reason than they are better funded.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Although indoctrination plays a part, it's a fairly weak force - in an information-rich society it's difficult to successfully indoctrinate people who don't wish to be indoctrinated. At best you can ensure that your (i.e. The Establishment) discourse is hegemonic. Possibly the largest motivator for inaction, in my opinion, is that people will not revolt or rebel if they have anything to lose - families; property; employment etc.
As for power to change, there's a problem with change within the existing system - there are very few mechanisms by which change can be realised, and those mechanisms are controlled by "them", not by us. Getting turkeys to vote for Christmas will be difficult, which is why the only assured way of realising change is full-on revolution, a dissolution of the current political system, and the building of a truly democratic society, where everyone within that society who wants a say, gets a say, not just the "right" to vote every couple of years. And guess what? More people are scared of revolution than they are of repression, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

The problem with most revolutions (there are exceptions of course. The American revolution is a case in point, although I say that guardedly) is that they leave a power vacuum. We saw this in the French Revolution and more recently in the "Arab Spring." This is probably why the word scares people.

Russell Brand is either trying to reinvent the word or uses it to bring attention to his ideas. So far he's succeeded with the latter.
 
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Anudder Oik said:
The Independent and channel 4 go full out sleeze against Russell Brand, the snides. But no-one having it. The article is the worst journalism I've seen for ages. Check the comments under it.

http://i100.independent.co.uk/artic...ll-brand-how-much-his-house-costs--xkgX6Tgqdx
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Good for Brand, and good for the woman who stood by him.

I'm amused by how the media is trying so desperately to smear Russel in order to divert attention from what he's saying and doing for ordinary people. They're making asses of themselves. There's nothing you can pin on Brand. His life is an open book, warts and all, which he fully admits to. What's more, he's not a politician, he's not running for office, he doesn't have to worry about his reputation, which is irrelevant anyway, and he doesn't work for corporations so he can't be fired. He's free and he uses his freedom to try to help others free themselves from an oppressive system. Plus, he's a comedian, he knows exactly how to handle hecklers, and he does so brilliantly. Like him, hate him, it doesn't matter. His ideas are what matters.

The laughs on you, snides. :p
 
Diana9 said:
Good for Brand, and good for the woman who spoke up for him.

I'm amused by how the media is trying so desperately to smear Russel in order to divert attention from what he's saying and doing for ordinary people. They're making asses of themselves. There's nothing you can pin on Brand. His life is an open book, warts and all, which he fully admits to. What's more, he's not a politician, he's not running for office, he doesn't have to worry about his reputation, which is irrelevant anyway, and he doesn't work for corporations so he can't be fired. He's free and he uses his freedom to try to help others free themselves from an oppressive system. Plus, he's a comedian, he knows exactly how to handle hecklers, and he does so brilliantly. Like him, hate him, it doesn't matter. His ideas are what matters.

The laughs on you, snides. :p
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I haven't that freedom.
 
I wanted to reply to that independent article but they appear to want to know everything about my online activity/friends/circles e.t.c. That Brand was there shouldn't be reason to make him the main story, even if it was his attendance that pricked the reporters editors ears to events. The bloke is flawed, but open about it and appears to genuinely be trying to better himself. The lady that stepped in and backed him up was superb, as he stated in his latest podcast thingy, The Trews. I'm intrigued to know what his rent is though!
 
I'm amused by how the media is trying so desperately to smear Russel in order to divert attention from what he's saying and doing for ordinary people.
Click to expand...

Let's talk about all these things diane. I'll go first - what smears? They fucking love him, they cannot get enough of him - none, or very little, critical. What smears then do you refer to?
 
Diana9 said:
The problem with most revolutions (there are exceptions of course. The American revolution is a case in point, although I say that guardedly) is that they leave a power vacuum. We saw this in the French Revolution and more recently in the "Arab Spring." This is probably why the word scares people.

Russell Brand is either trying to reinvent the word or uses it to bring attention to his ideas. So far he's succeeded with the latter.
Click to expand...
but so far he's just identified vocally that we who make and do are the people maintaining the upper portions of society- beyond some hippy shit about shift in global consciousness where else is he going?
 
Rent is 76,000 a year according to the front page headline on the Sun tomorrow, to a landlord who dodges tax.

Hatchet job from the scum press, perhaps an indication he's doing something right.
 
Dogsauce said:
Rent is 76,000 a year according to the front page headline on the Sun tomorrow, to a landlord who dodges tax.

Hatchet job from the scum press, perhaps an indication he's doing something right.
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you mean he pays rent of 76k per year while talking of revolution and rights? I know you can't go full Assisi on this but 76k? for real?
 
DotCommunist said:
you mean he pays rent of 76k per year while talking of revolution and rights? I know you can't go full Assisi on this but 76k? for real?
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That's his london stay at home place. His multi-million hollywood one is another.

Damn right it is relevant - we brought it up before the fucking sun. And it was damn right relevant when lennon bottled it too.
 
DotCommunist said:
but so far he's just identified vocally that we who make and do are the people maintaining the upper portions of society- beyond some hippy shit about shift in global consciousness where else is he going?
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Um... he successfully helped prevent the eviction of low-income people from their homes (like the woman who stood by him).

First victory for Russell Brand's 'revolution' as Tory MP's New Era Estate company pulls out of Hoxton development

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-pulls-out-of-hoxton-development-9864152.html
 
Diana9 said:
Um... he successfully helped prevent the eviction of low-income people from their homes (like the woman who stood by him).

First victory for Russell Brand's 'revolution' as Tory MP's New Era Estate company pulls out of Hoxton development

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-pulls-out-of-hoxton-development-9864152.html
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I think, with the best will in the world, you don't know a single fucking thing about that campaign and are being pretty insulting in your retelling.
 
I've never in my life contemplated earning plus 30K. Perhaps I have limited ambition. I just want a roof to call my own and work to maintain my other needs. 78 thousand pounds for rental on ONE of your gaffs. Vive la.
 
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