Rochester & Strood by-election

[butchersapron]

I have said there are possibilities of something happening. If it doesn't in the event happen, that doesn't make me wrong.

No, you said these things

a) would happen

then when they didn't

b) i was right to be wrong about them happening.

You're doing it now. Just how thin is your skeleton?

 

[articul8]

What "things" are we talking about? NIck Griffin posing a real threat in Barking (said months out from the election, and only disproved by massive community campaign) The rise of the Socialist Alliance (was always conditional about that)? AV referendum (underestimated scale of the nO vote but not the fact of it).

Not the world's worst political errors.

 

[butchersapron]

What "things" are we talking about? NIck Griffin posing a real threat in Barking (said months out from the election, and only disproved by massive community campaign) The rise of the Socialist Alliance (was always conditional about that)? AV referendum (underestimated scale of the nO vote but not the fact of it).

Not the world's worst political errors.

You list one. You were wrong. But, as in so many other things, you argue that you were right to be wrong. The people who were right at the start - well, they were wrong to be right and doing being right out of malevolent motivations You've given some examples last hour.

You're drowning. Save your life, forget your glittering insider career.

 

[articul8]

Back on topic

We asked her ‘What are you going to do next?’ expecting to hear she was going to lunch or something, and she said ‘I’m going to become head of the NUS, then I’m going to be a barrister and then an MP’.

was this supposed to be helping?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/28/emily-thornberry--van-driver-brother-ben

 

[butchersapron]

Back on topic

was this supposed to be helping?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/28/emily-thornberry--van-driver-brother-ben

You haven't even read the thread have you - the bit where her entrepreneur milionaire brother is exposed as not being quite what he seems have you?

I just love that labour party you're having btw.

 

[butchersapron]

Back on topic

was this supposed to be helping?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/28/emily-thornberry--van-driver-brother-ben

Helping who?

 

[articul8]

You haven't even read the thread have you - the bit where her entrepreneur milionaire brother is exposed as not being quite what he seems have you?

I just love that labour party you're having btw.

Where? Millionaire? Living in a million pound house might not mean all that much in Islington to be fair.

 

[Wilf]

I think that sadly even a Labour-led government would be committed to austerity spending plans although the attacks on the working class - though they would continue - would be offset to a greater degree than under the Tories by some elements of progressive taxation. But I still think it's worth electing a Labour government as it would in pretty short order start to betray the expectations of people who look to it to offer some meaningful alternative. So there's scope for some quite convulsive moves from within the wider party.

.

I realise you've been busy in the last hour , but another q for you: if I've got this right, you are aware Labour will carry on attacking the working class - and you want to be actively part of that?

If anything, the second bit's even more fucked up - you support more pain being inflicted, in order to change your own party. Fuck.

 

[butchersapron]

Where? Millionaire? Living in a million pound house might not mean all that much in Islington to be fair.

Great - Buy to let is fine, being a snobby anti-working class liberal is fine, not reading the thread whilst replying is fine, not bothering to do a seconds research is fine.

 

[articul8]

Great - Buy to let is fine, being a snobby anti-working class liberal is fine, not reading the thread whilst replying is fine, not bothering to do a seconds research is fine.

I have read the thread - it doesn't say what you say it says (not for the first time). Nor have I justified buy-to-let, or snobby anti-working class attitudes.

 

[butchersapron]

I realise you've been busy in the last hour , but another q for you: if I've got this right, you are aware Labour will carry on attacking the working class - and you want to be actively part of that?

If anything, the second bit's even more fucked up - you support more pain being inflicted, in order to change your own party. Fuck.

Have you missed the whole post-2010 thing? I get that it's boring but he has urged people to vote and join labour because they will disappointed and then force their way through to a new formation. I'm not making this up.

He also argues that labour are the only hope and that it's possible to change labour.

None of this is made up. It sounds like it is i know.

 

[butchersapron]

I have read the thread - it doesn't say what you say it says (not for the first time). Nor have I justified buy-to-let, or snobby anti-working class attitudes.

So the bit where you didn't read the two consecutively linked articles about that thing you just linked to - you read them? Don't lie.

 

[articul8]

I realise you've been busy in the last hour , but another q for you: if I've got this right, you are aware Labour will carry on attacking the working class - and you want to be actively part of that?

If anything, the second bit's even more fucked up - you support more pain being inflicted, in order to change your own party. Fuck.

Listening to the debate on the Counter Terrorism Bill but Hazel Blears is speaking so need to pass the time doing something else. I think Labour will slacken the pace of the attacks, and its victory will punish the architects of austerity. This, inadequate as it is, is better than nothing. Then the battle will move on to fighting the Labour leadership.

 

[articul8]

So the bit where you didn't read the two consecutively linked articles about that thing you just linked to - you read them? Don't lie.

yes, but they didn't have the line about heading up NUS, which is why I quoted this one.

 

[butchersapron]

yes, but they didn't have the line about heading up NUS, which is why I quoted this one.

It's neither relevant nor telling nor did you highlight it.

 

[articul8]

I thought it telling, and I highlighted it by quoting it.

 

[ska invita]

I think Labour will slacken the pace of the attacks, and its victory will punish the architects of austerity.

who and how will be punishing the architects of austerity? i didnt quite follow that....

 

[butchersapron]

I thought it telling, and I highlighted it by quoting it.

Not any of the stuff about her bother and his fake white van-ness?

 

[butchersapron]

who and how will be punishing the architects of austerity? i didnt quite follow that....

Or who they will be.

 

[ska invita]

slackening the pace of austerity will punish the architects of austerity....onwards to victory!

 

[articul8]

who and how will be punishing the architects of austerity? i didnt quite follow that....

OK maybe not all the architects, but at least the people responsible for delivering it five years. Is a Labour government really no better than five more years of Tories in charge? It would not reverse the attacks, but it would could potentially slow the pace a bit and deflect the attacks from the working poor to some extent - which is all that's achievable at this stage electorally.

 

[butchersapron]

OK maybe not all the architects, but at least the people responsible for delivering it five years. Is a Labour government really no better than five more years of Tories in charge? It would not reverse the attacks, but it would could potentially slow the pace a bit and deflect the attacks from the working poor to some extent - which is all that's achievable at this stage electorally.

SMASHING THROUGH LABOUR TO A NEW FORMATION AND OTHER BOLLOCKS I LIE TO MYSELF ABOUT AND OTHER TIMES I'VE READ ABOUT.

Or voting and joining labour.

 

[ska invita]

OK maybe not all the architects, but at least the people responsible for delivering it five years. Is a Labour government really no better than five more years of Tories in charge? It would not reverse the attacks, but it would could potentially slow the pace a bit and deflect the attacks from the working poor to some extent - which is all that's achievable at this stage electorally.

sounds very punishing

 

[butchersapron]

OK maybe not all the architects, but at least the people responsible for delivering it five years. Is a Labour government really no better than five more years of Tories in charge? It would not reverse the attacks, but it would could potentially slow the pace a bit and deflect the attacks from the working poor to some extent - which is all that's achievable at this stage electorally.

Which would make your plan to REVEAL the true nature of labour and thus to politically reconstitute the working class once they have seen the light to be a bit of rhetorical bollocks designed to make you think that you're still a hard lefter - would it not?

 

[articul8]

No, there is more scope for build in pressure on/in/against Labour than the Tories as there's a sense that we would expect no less from Tories. Whilst people don't expect much from Labour they may get even less in the current context. The straw that breaks the camels back?

 

[Buckaroo]

OK maybe not all the architects, but at least the people responsible for delivering it five years. Is a Labour government really no better than five more years of Tories in charge? It would not reverse the attacks, but it would could potentially slow the pace a bit and deflect the attacks from the working poor to some extent - which is all that's achievable at this stage electorally.

'Slow the pace and deflect the attacks from the working poor to some extent.' Bit of a slip mate. "On the working poor" is what you meant.

 

[butchersapron]

No, there is more scope for build in pressure on/in/against Labour than the Tories as there's a sense that we would expect no less from Tories. Whilst people don't expect much from Labour they may get even less in the current context. The straw that breaks the camels back?

That back that was about to break in 79, 83,87, 92,97, 2001,2005,2010.

The same madness that the far-right have about the tories splitting and reconstituting around them.

And you know what, it's the same trot drivel you now condemn that you used to parrot quite freely.

 

[butchersapron]

'Slow the pace and deflect the attacks from the working poor to some extent.' Bit of a slip mate. "On the working poor" is what you meant.

I noted the working poor bit too - not for the first time.

 

[articul8]

That is their language not mine

 

[butchersapron]

That is their language not mine

No it's your language - you just offered it as reason to vote labour. And that just reveals that the purported divide between them (labour leaders) and you (rank and file snobby anti-working class liberals) doesn't exist. All one team.