Rochdale grooming trial: Nine men jailed

[Pickman's model]

it was a sample taken from a study

and what did the study concentrate on?

 

[Das Uberdog]

you invented the introduction of 'questions' to this conversation

 

[Pickman's model]

you invented the introduction of 'questions' to this conversation

what do you mean?

 

[Das Uberdog]

and what did the study concentrate on?

large offending groups of street grooming

 

[Pickman's model]

obviously not, but the community itself is an organisational entity and as such it does have questions to answer

what's this here?

 

[Das Uberdog]

what do you mean?

i mean i never said anything about asking people questions, i used the much more open-ended term 'answer for itself' and you presumed that meant that i wanted every single Pakistani in the Peshwari region to personally undergo an interrogation. not my problem really

 

[Pickman's model]

large offending groups of street grooming

yes, which is of course a subset of all grooming. if you have a source for asian / pakistani / chukchi gangs carrying out well over 50% of all grooming, i'd be interested in seeing it.

 

[Pickman's model]

i mean i never said anything about asking people questions, i used the much more open-ended term 'answer for itself' and you presumed that meant that i wanted every single Pakistani in the Peshwari region to personally undergo an interrogation. not my problem really

answer what? what people generally answer, is questions. and i would be interested in finding out

a) who you think the community should answer to, and

b) what you think they should answer

 

[goldenecitrone]

Evil men and vulnerable young children. That's the crux of the matter.

 

[Das Uberdog]

yes, which is of course a subset of all grooming. if you have a source for asian / pakistani / chukchi gangs carrying out well over 50% of all grooming, i'd be interested in seeing it.

ok i did say 'grooming cases', i should have said 'similar cases'. it's a fair point, but you know if that's what your issue was you could have dug to the root of that without this whole pedantic charade. as for the rest of your pointless games, i'm out - having already told you exactly what it is that i meant by my original statement which had no mention of 'questions'.

 

[The39thStep]

I do 39 and it was called 'All our Tommorows'..by Ted Allbeury...every time as a bit of a gimmick when I was out shopping I'd go into any nearby 2nd hand bookshop, which I do frequently and if I came across a copy of it I buy it...Ive got 12 now....kinda silly I know. The other thing is although there are several 2nd hand copies of NR on Amazon Ive never spotted one in a 2nd hand bookshop/charity shop/car boot et al. Was told that when that happens youve made it...well thats bollox Im sure....remind me 39 were we simultaneously The Junction and Red Lion Vets...??

They were two separate teams , I just ghosted players between the two. Even I managed to play for the Vets. But the cunning plan was.............I moved the team from the Junction to the Red and ushered in a new dawn. The season after I jacked it we won the treble.

What ever happened to Gerry, our stalwart RA 'creative' middle fielder?

We never recruited Dave Connolly who was at Red Star Chorlton , god knows where he is?

Not sure if you remember those two crazy Hulme brothers. Chris and Paul Hand ,who came straight to us after serving 4 and half years after glassing some blokes?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

A vicar is making a right arse of himself on QT atm - almost implied that the girl victims were guilty of contributory neglience.

 

[goldenecitrone]

A vicar is making a right arse of himself on QT atm - almost implied that the girl victims were guilty of contributory neglience.

Not every white middle-class man with short hair is in the BNP. Did I mishear that?

 

[Pickman's model]

ok i did say 'grooming cases', i should have said 'similar cases'. it's a fair point, but you know if that's what your issue was you could have dug to the root of that without this whole pedantic charade. as for the rest of your pointless games, i'm out - having already told you exactly what it is that i meant by my original statement which had no mention of 'questions'.

you grabbed onto the notion of questions to answer but you still can't explain what these people should answer or who they should answer it to.

 

[danny la rouge]

Of course I agree and I dont for one minute think we shouldnt look at these men and how they managed to get away with it for so long and what their motives were. Im just cautious at laying the blame/responsibility/analysis etc at the door of Islam-because those who practice/believe in Islam arent one big homogeneous group that all share the same attitude towards women.

Well, I've been careful not to lay the blame at the door of Islam. I've talked about cultures associated with Islam. I think I was fairly clear where I'm coming from in this previous post. And I think I've been careful not to call Muslims an homogeneous group. I've talked about cultures plural. I'm also aware of Muslim feminists such as Fatima Mernissi, for example. (Although, note that women can be conservative, too: there are women in - and who have left - the C of E who oppose women priests and bishops, for example). There is a debate to be had about women and Muslim cultures. Some within Islamic communities are already having that debate.

 

[danny la rouge]

This debate seems to be revolving around Islam-the rights and wrongs, attitudes, misogyny etc. Has anyone considered these may be separate issues to the the actual criminal behaviour of this gang?

First of all, I've said Islam need not be misogynistic. You're generalising where I'm actually not. But your more substantive point is that the criminal behaviour might be separate. From what, though? From misogyny? From abuse of power?

 

[Pickman's model]

(Although, note that women can be conservative, too: there are women in - and who have left - the C of E who oppose women priests and bishops, for example).

i'm sure there are better examples of women being religiously conservative than that.

 

[danny la rouge]

i'm sure there are better examples of women being religiously conservative than that.

I was implying patriarchal conservatism. There may be better examples. It was something that had been mentioned earlier.

 

[Citizen66]

Why pick on kids?

Often because they themselves were abused as children. It's a chicken and egg scenario. Do priests become peadophiles because of the vow of celibacy or do paedophiles become priests because it gives them a trusted position with access to kids?

 

[bignose1]

They were two separate teams , I just ghosted players between the two. Even I managed to play for the Vets. But the cunning plan was.............I moved the team from the Junction to the Red and ushered in a new dawn. The season after I jacked it we won the treble.

What ever happened to Gerry, our stalwart RA 'creative' middle fielder?

We never recruited Dave Connolly who was at Red Star Chorlton , god knows where he is?

Not sure if you remember those two crazy Hulme brothers. Chris and Paul Hand ,who came straight to us after serving 4 and half years after glassing some blokes?

Fuck me 39 my brains fried. I remember now. Gerry fucked off to India for a while..taking lots of dope and went a bit para..he posts as Porky on here...not very much now. Think he's back in Glasgow. Dave Connolly no idea..sweet left foot a bit Robbo like in style but started shagging about and his woman kicked him out....The Hand bros I see around occasionally although another bro John is doing big time atm. We also had the two firemen who got in that mither with Dessie N.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Fuck me 39 my brains fried. I remember now. Gerry fucked off to India for a while..taking lots of dope and went a bit para..he posts as Porky on here...not very much now. Think he's back in Glasgow. Dave Connolly no idea..sweet left foot a bit Robbo like in style but started shagging about and his woman kicked him out....The Hand bros I see around occasionally although another bro John is doing big time atm. We also had the two firemen who got in that mither with Dessie N.

This must be code. MI5 have got no chance.

 

[The39thStep]

Fuck me 39 my brains fried. I remember now. Gerry fucked off to India for a while..taking lots of dope and went a bit para..he posts as Porky on here...not very much now. Think he's back in Glasgow. Dave Connolly no idea..sweet left foot a bit Robbo like in style but started shagging about and his woman kicked him out....The Hand bros I see around occasionally although another bro John is doing big time atm. We also had the two firemen who got in that mither with Dessie N.

The twins? One was a fireman , he was the one who got hurt,he has retired now I bump into him every now and a blue moon. His brother was a labourer. Was Winston playing when you did? He is still around but his brother died.

I think we went through quite a few players at that club.

 

[articul8]

porn style 'lad' misogyny is a universe apart from the quite commonplace attitudes within the North West Pakistani community

Young Pakistani men don't look at porn? Really? Of course they don't think "their" women are like that...

 

[Pickman's model]

I was implying patriarchal conservatism. There may be better examples. It was something that had been mentioned earlier.

and matriarchal conservatism?

 

[danny la rouge]

We seem to be straying somewhat.

 

[Pickman's model]

We seem to be straying somewhat.

yes, the thread is fraying into several strands

 

[bignose1]

The twins? One was a fireman , he was the one who got hurt,he has retired now I bump into him every now and a blue moon. His brother was a labourer. Was Winston playing when you did? He is still around but his brother died.

I think we went through quite a few players at that club.

Phnarr Phanrr...speak for yourself....
...yeah Winnie was there..sorry to hear about his bro...remember Carlos...cheeky little player but a proper drama queen..

 

[Spymaster]

Starkey has finally gone completely bonkers by suggesting that the Rochdale sex ring is the Pakistani "cultural norm".

Don't know if he's been misquoted because the other quotes seem to suggest that he's talking about oppressive treatment of women rather than sex gangs.

But does his broader point (that many Pakistani males simply aren't educated into treating women decently and that issues of feminism and emancipation should be incorporated into English history lessons) have any merit?

 

[Das Uberdog]

Young Pakistani men don't look at porn? Really? Of course they don't think "their" women are like that...

no, not that they don't look at it, but that the attitudes surrounding that element of 'lad' culture are simply in another universe in comparison with some of the attitudes which are relatively commonplace amongst young Pakistani men. i've only got personal experience here to convince you, but seriously it's in no way comparable.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

David Starkey's a feminist now? When did that happen?