Racism towards Travellers in the UK

[bellaozzydog]

I've no experience of Romani gypsies. Only Irish travellers. I'm sure there are decent people among them, I've just never met any.

I had this discussion with Dubversion, years ago. I don't think my position has changed since.

16 years on and you are still extrapolating your opinion on a whole culture, from what is basically Your anec-data

Apologies big edit

Have you had many racist experiences with GRT communities since?

How do you talk about GRT communities to your children? What language do you use?


I get that GRT can be a “hard sell” everyone seems to have their own dit about how gypsies did XYZ.

The GRT community haven’t come out of a lot of the media generated about them very well. Gypsy weddings, you tube rants and bare knuckle fighting, weekly stories about how terrible the car park was left in local rags etc

Isn’t the idea to identify/accept that systemic ingrained racism in society impacts certain groups, understand that this can in some ways drive culture/behaviour negatively

Then put aside judging whole communities on the publicised worst examples of behaviour and want to see groups or communities get treated equitably?

Maybe I’m just a fucking hippy, but it’s about thinking about it on a slightly deeper level than “gypsies near me when I was a kid were pricks”

 

[Spymaster]

Have you had many racist experiences with GRT communities since?

No. I've avoided them since. Other people I know have though.

How do you talk about GRT communities to your children? What language do you use?

I don't.

 

[TopCat]

I've no experience of Romani gypsies. Only Irish travellers. I'm sure there are decent people among them, I've just never met any.

I had this discussion with Dubversion, years ago. I don't think my position has changed since.

You really are letting your inner cunt out.

 

[Spymaster]

You really are letting your inner cunt out.

Given the polishing you've been giving your dunce credentials over so many threads recently, I'll just ignore that.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

16 years on and you are still extrapolating your opinion on a whole culture, from what is basically Your anec-data

Apologies big edit

Have you had many racist experiences with GRT communities since?

How do you talk about GRT communities to your children? What language do you use?


I get that GRT can be a “hard sell” everyone seems to have their own dit about how gypsies did XYZ.

The GRT community haven’t come out of a lot of the media generated about them very well. Gypsy weddings, you tube rants and bare knuckle fighting, weekly stories about how terrible the car park was left in local rags etc

Isn’t the idea to identify/accept that systemic ingrained racism in society impacts certain groups, understand that this can in some ways drive culture/behaviour negatively

Then put aside judging whole communities on the publicised worst examples of behaviour and want to see groups or communities get treated equitably?

Maybe I’m just a fucking hippy, but it’s about thinking about it on a slightly deeper level than “gypsies near me when I was a kid were pricks”

It's not that simple really. I've had frightening experiences as a woman from certain groups of people. I've avoided similar groups of people since - some of them are almost certainly perfectly sound, but I'm not going to take that chance. Why is that wrong?

 

[Tanya1982]

The first boy I ever kissed was a gypsy, whose family were housed in a nearby B&B so his mother could access AIDS hospice care. He was gorgeous.

 

[krtek a houby]

Given the polishing you've been giving your dunce credentials over so many threads recently, I'll just ignore that.

In fairness, this might be the time to contemplate your prejudices instead of lashing out at people.

Iirc, you were racially abused a few years back on the tube by a white couple?

Do you avoid that demographic as well? If not, why not?

(And this isn't asked in order to lessen your experiences with any people who have been racist towards you, obviously)

 

[Spymaster]

Iirc, you were racially abused a few years back on the tube by a white couple?

Do you avoid that demographic as well? If not, why not?

No. Because the overwhelmingly vast majority of white people I've met have not been racially abusive towards me.

 

[bellaozzydog]

It's not that simple really. I've had frightening experiences as a woman from certain groups of people. I've avoided similar groups of people since - some of them are almost certainly perfectly sound, but I'm not going to take that chance. Why is that wrong?

It isn’t wrong

It’s never good for anyone to have negative frightening experiences in life

but you also accept/identify that “certain groups” of people aren’t all “bad”

The discussion isn’t about individual negative personal experiences, it’s about whole communities being defined by worst case experiences/exposures to them and the cycling/ recycling of these experiences which becomes a damaging and socially acceptable stereotype

 

[bellaozzydog]

No. Because the overwhelmingly vast majority of white people I've met have not been racially abusive towards me.

The vast majority of white people you have met over the years likely contained members of the GRT community

 

[skyscraper101]

Drighlington Horse Fair update. Witness the CHAOS.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/people/drighlington-horse-fair-10-pictures-as-event-organised-by-traveller-community-arrives-in-leeds-village-4226240

 

[Spymaster]

The vast majority of white people you have met over the years likely contained members of the GRT community

Define GRT community.

 

[skyscraper101]

Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community. i.e. people from those communities.

 

[Rob Ray]

Given the polishing you've been giving your dunce credentials over so many threads recently, I'll just ignore that.

No he's right, you really are. Saying you've never met a decent Irish Traveller as though this is a lesson learned, followed by admitting you've barely spent any time speaking to them is pretty textbook dickhead behaviour.

 

[Spymaster]

Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community. i.e. people from those communities.

I know what it stands for. I'm asking him to define the communities.

If he means members of those groups who have assimilated into regular white society, he may be right. If he means large groups of Irish Travellers who set up camp on common land and make other's lives a misery, he's talking bollocks.

I'm referring to the latter.

 

[not a trot]

The first boy I ever kissed was a gypsy, whose family were housed in a nearby B&B so his mother could access AIDS hospice care. He was gorgeous.

It's never ending BS from you.

 

[Rob Ray]

Ah a completely fictional premise in which settled = good and mobile = bad. This may be some of your laziest thinking yet.

 

[Spymaster]

No he's right, you really are. Saying you've never met a decent Irish Traveller as though this is a lesson learned, followed by admitting you've barely spent any time speaking to them is pretty textbook dickhead behaviour.

Nobody has said that though. You're as stupid as he is.

 

[Spymaster]

Ah a completely fictional premise in which settled = good and mobile = bad. This may be some of your laziest thinking yet.

Christ you're thick.

 

[Flavour]

Must admit I don't find the lumping together of disparate peoples as "GRT" particularly helpful. Bit like "BAME", which has since fallen out of use and quite rightly so

 

[Rob Ray]

Nobody has said that though. You're as stupid as he is.

Didn't you?

I've no experience of Romani gypsies. Only Irish travellers. I'm sure there are decent people among them, I've just never met any.

I've avoided them since.

Pretty sure this suggests you had some unpleasant experiences of Irish Travellers, decided you'd learned a lesson that they're not decent as a rule, and have avoided them since, meaning you've not, on the whole, spent much time with them.

Christ you're thick.

Ah apologies I skimmed, you think you may have met settled people but not people who come from the road (you might be surprised).

I'm a bit concerned about that superior unflappable demeanour of yours though, you seem to be letting your inner toddler get the best of you. Is it because you jumped onto a thread to make comments about how other people were bigoted towards you so you feel entitled to be bigoted towards everyone who shares their background and got surprised by the response?

 

[Spymaster]

Didn't you?




Pretty sure this suggests you had some unpleasant experiences of Irish Travellers, decided you'd learned a lesson that they're not decent as a rule, and have avoided them since, meaning you've not, on the whole, spent much time with them.

Ah apologies I skimmed, you think you may have met settled people but not people who come from the road (you might be surprised). I'm a bit concerned about that superior unflappable demeanour of yours though, you seem to be letting your inner toddler get the best of you.

Have you read the threads I've linked to on here?

 

[chainsawjob]

There are some, that's true. But not very many, nowhere near enough.

According to research from 2021 there were 1696 families on waiting lists for pitches but only 59 permanent pitches and 42 transit pitches available nationwide.

New research shows huge unmet need for pitches on Traveller sites in England - Friends, Families and Travellers

Today, Friends, Families and Travellers (FFT) have released new research showing the shocking lack of pitches available on public Traveller sites in England. The report reveals that whilst over 1696 households are currently on waiting lists […]

www.gypsy-traveller.org

I have personally never had a pitch on a permanent site but have been parked on temporary sites maybe three or four times in the last twenty five years or so. During the summer I'm sorted for a park-up because I work at various festivals but this only accounts for about 3-4 months of the year. The rest of the time I am usually parked on unauthorised encampments which mostly means I am squatting/committing trespass. As this is now a criminal offence it means I could face having my home seized and be imprisoned.

Even before the new legislation regarding trespass was passed the authorities already had considerable power to evict and move us on. Under the 1994 Criminal Justice Act the police had power to evict immediately if there were more than six vehicles on the site (Section 61). If a Section 61 is used then you cannot return to that piece of land for six months. I have personally had a section 61 served on me more times than I care to remember. It has been known (not normal practice though) for the police to include bicycles and pushchairs as vehicles!

If the local authority has an available pitch on an authorised site then the police can issue a Section 62. This means that they offer you a pitch and if you refuse to take it then you must leave the entire county and cannot return anywhere to anywhere in that county for six months. This has been used on me once. It was in West Sussex and there was one pitch available. It was on a site in Chichester that was filled with Irish travellers. If one of us had opted to go there we would have not been made welcome because we would have taken a pitch that could instead have gone to another Irish traveller family. Not to mention the fact that our little crew would have been split up. So one by one the five of us were offered the pitch and as each of us declined all of us then had to leave the county immediately and not return for six months.

Thanks, interesting insight into what life is like for travellers. And your other post about where you were during lockdown, and how the local community changed their views.

 

[Rob Ray]

Have you read the threads I've linked to on here?

Thread singular, wasn't it? Yes I have. In which you say that your experiences are universally negative, but don't seem to say how many of them you had or what they entailed (not that this is a requirement particularly but you are using these experiences to support your contention), or back the allegation up with other supporting evidence.

But let's say you had a couple dozen negative interactions, and made your decision from that. What you'd more probably mean there would be "Irish Travellers round my way have always been racist arseholes." Now can you work out why I might add the words in italics?

 

[chainsawjob]

Drighlington Horse Fair update. Witness the CHAOS.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/people/drighlington-horse-fair-10-pictures-as-event-organised-by-traveller-community-arrives-in-leeds-village-4226240

There was a display of photographs by Brian Morgan at Atchin Tan at Glastonbury, some of them are in this article, they were really brilliant portraits of people in the GRT community.

Appleby Horse Fair: A photo-essay by Brian Morgan

www.travellerstimes.org.uk

 

[Spymaster]

Thread singular, wasn't it? Yes I have. In which you say that your experiences are universally negative, but don't seem to say how many of them you had or what they entailed, or back the allegation up with supporting evidence.

But let's say you had a couple dozen negative interactions, and made your decision from that. What you'd more probably mean there would be "Irish Travellers round my way have always been racist arseholes." Now can you work out why I might add the words in italics?

Back up with evidence? How should I do that? I'm relating my experiences and those of many other people I know. They also seem to be shared by other contributors to this and other threads.

Nothing you're posting here wasn't covered by Dubversion in our exchange. He was significantly brighter than you, so I don't feel the need to go over it all again just because you're yapping at my heels.

 

[krtek a houby]

He was significantly brighter than you, so I don't feel the need to go over it all again just because you're yapping at my heels.

It's really not helpful comparing people to animals.

 

[Spymaster]

Oh shut up.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's really not helpful comparing people to animals.

Dubversion's not an animal. Bit rude there.

 

[Rob Ray]

Back up with evidence? How should I do that?

Studies, polls ... surely a Terribly Smart Chap such as yourself knows the difference between (extremely vague) anecdotal and empirical evidence?

Nothing you're posting here wasn't covered by Dubversion in our exchange. He was significantly brighter than you so I don't feel the need to go over it all again

Oh I do apologise I didn't realise I needed to co-ordinate with Dubversion. I'm not sure why you think calling me stupid is a good angle here but it's your time to waste I suppose.