Purnell: more attacks on the unemployed, etc

[E.J.]

I know I've asked this before, but can anyone find a link to any actual information about how this will affect carers of disabled children?

I post on a local autism group and think a lot of the lone carers on there may be in for a shock. I know the Freud report acknowledges some groups like parents of disabled kids may find it hard to find work, but it doesn't say specifically they will be exempt from it.

I was going to ask this question and it's regards to my youngest brother in my family he's 24 an autisic (with a mental age 5). My second eldest brother is on a carers benefit (thus he's responsible for looking after my younger brother) for the last 4 years* - He was on incapacity benefit due to problems with i think lymphoedema in both legs.

Will both of them will be forced to work under this totally fuckin stupid & deeply flawed policy?


*due to my mum passing away and my dad being 76

 

[_angel_]

I was going to ask this question and it's regards to my youngest brother in my family he's 24 an autisic (with a mental age 5). My second eldest brother is on a carers benefit (thus he's responsible for looking after my younger brother) for the last 4 years* - He was on incapacity benefit due to problems with i think lymphoedema in both legs.

Will both of them will be forced to work under this totally fuckin stupid & deeply flawed policy?


*due to my mum passing away and my dad being 76

If you're on carer's benefit, no, for the time being, you will not be required to do this. However if you are a carer and for whatever reason NOT claiming the allowance, and on income support, there is no guarantee you won't be made to sweep the streets, presumably with the disabled people you are caring for yoked to you.


I don't trust this govt or the next one not to start on carers.


I have no idea what they have in store for autistic people especially the most severe ones. My guess would be the most severe (like your brother) would be okay, it's the more 'functional' ones who will probably get the shitty end of the stick.

 

[LoveMeDont]

I don't trust this govt or the next one not to start on carers.

Aren't carers a much cheaper alternative to providing professional 24/7 care? I would have thought they at least will be 'safe' (unless the person they are caring for is deemed fit enough to work, of course).

 

[treelover]

Aren't carers a much cheaper alternative to providing professional 24/7 care? I would have thought they at least will be 'safe' (unless the person they are caring for is deemed fit enough to work, of course).

or die, I know of one poor soul who was put onto JSA within a few days of the person she was caring for, dying, despite her being distraught with grief, none of this ever gets out to the public though, thye just hear about the 'fiddlers'

 

[_angel_]

or die, I know of one poor soul who was put onto JSA within a few days of the person she was caring for, dying, despite her being distraught with grief, none of this ever gets out to the public though, thye just hear about the 'fiddlers'

A poster on this site was mithered by the job centre after her husband died, even before the funeral was arranged.

 

[_angel_]

Aren't carers a much cheaper alternative to providing professional 24/7 care? I would have thought they at least will be 'safe' (unless the person they are caring for is deemed fit enough to work, of course).

Well, if you're on oncome support you are herded into a 'work focused interview' that you have to attend. Every carer's event the jobcentre seem to have stalls. I really don't know how they're hoping to get people who look after others fulltime into work. I really do not understand the weird parallel universe of the governments "work at all cost!" mantra (or should that be "paid work" of course). And James Purnell basically couldn't answer a question about carers who don't get the carer's allowance not being frogmarched off to sweep the streets.

 

[jiggajagga]

A couple of yrs ago I was castigated on these boards for being a 'fantasist' or 'doom-monger' when I spoke about the end of the welfare state. I still say that withing 10 yrs the welfare state as we know it will no longer be in existence. and it will have happened because people let it happen I'm afraid!

I think the Singapore model of society is not too far away where the well-to-do have plenty of 'work or starve' to pick from to do their dirty work.

 

[_angel_]

A couple of yrs ago I was castigated on these boards for being a 'fantasist' or 'doom-monger' when I spoke about the end of the welfare state. I still say that withing 10 yrs the welfare state as we know it will no longer be in existence. and it will have happened because people let it happen I'm afraid!

I think the Singapore model of society is not too far away where the well-to-do have plenty of 'work or starve' to pick from to do their dirty work.

even when it's happened it won't stop moronic bastards moaning about 'scroungers' in the same way the single-mum-only-got-pregnant-to-get-a-council-house mantra is repeated by brain dead cretins, despite there being no evidence to prove it.

 

[Nigel]

even when it's happened it won't stop moronic bastards moaning about 'scroungers' in the same way the single-mum-only-got-pregnant-to-get-a-council-house mantra is repeated by brain dead cretins, despite there being no evidence to prove it.

Although there are are a lot that do.
Good to see all htese long term scroungers squealing

 

[_angel_]

Although there are are a lot that do.
Good to see all htese long term scroungers squealing

I've never met any of them. Your sneering extends to council house dwellers too, does it. Nice.

Kind of weird sort of 'working class socialist' aren't you. Maybe you made a mistake and are actually a working class tory.


Hang on weren't you moaning about having to take a low paid job by the jobcentre on this thread
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=252424

 

[jiggajagga]

I've never met any of them. Your sneering extends to council house dwellers too, does it. Nice.

Kind of weird sort of 'working class socialist' aren't you. Maybe you made a mistake and are actually a working class tory.


Hang on weren't you moaning about having to take a low paid job by the jobcentre on this thread
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=252424

Nice one Angel! LOL

 

[Cressi]

Whats James Purnells qualifications? What qualifies him to dream up new schemes?

If he is a ideologist cant we just add that to our CV's.........something like I am ideologically skilled in thinking about Welfare Reforms and because of my experience on the ground, in the grass roots as they say I am looking to work with like minded people such as James Purnell and his team.

Cannot access his his webcast answers where he is asked about carers as site is down for maintenance. Nor does he mention the Volunteers and the work they want done by them for free.

 

[_angel_]

Cressi: It works fine for me on this link.


http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page15991.asp


If you can't make that work I could always post up the whole cut and paste thing, although generally that kind of thing is frowned on.

This is where he ignores a question about carers not on carer's allowance:

Rosemary: There are many carers who for one reason or another do not claim Carers Allowance but still care full time.Can Mr Purnell confirm that in these circumstances the said carers will be exempt from the new rules.

James replies: People on Carers' Allowance will not be required to work, as now.

Answer the question!!!!

 

[denniseagle]

just out of interest............

Why does everybody seem to concentrate on those claiming IB?

Every day I drive past the job centre (or whatever its called nowadays) at least twice and I see ,what outwardly appear to be, numerous fit young people milling about outside.

Am I correct in believing that those who are on Jobseekers allowance would be the first to be 'targetted' with this workfare malarky?

I work with a guy whose physical disabilties (due to certain chemicals his mother injested involuntary) qualify him to claim IB yet he still works full time.

Horses for courses........ sit on you ass all day bemoaning your lot or strive to improve through honest endevour.

If you can use a keyboard then someone, somewhere, can use your ability it's up to YOU to help yourself and not rely on others to do it for you.

 

[trevhagl]

Its Slave Labour now....its not nu ....their stupid New Deals never worked.Just an excuse to design new slogan, logos.......print and push nu posh 3 col print paper. Tons + tons of it. Dont they realise a pretty colored logo isnt going to con us anymore? DWP (Die or Work Posse)The paperpushers. As for Purnells outbursts. How can men be supposedly intelligent but so stupid?

Spot on.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Horses for courses........ sit on you ass all day bemoaning your lot or strive to improve through honest endevour.

If you can use a keyboard then someone, somewhere, can use your ability it's up to YOU to help yourself and not rely on others to do it for you.

On your bike!

 

[Cressi]

I am also worried that it is going to alienate more youths as well. I have youths (grown up children) who work but they have friends that sometimes , in between jobs do not work and they do not bother to sign on coz of the hassle for a measely £40. They find it dehumanizing, belittling and a waste of time. How will they survive? Live off the bank of mum and dad or dabble in drugs, cash jobs or whatever to survive.

As for the green papers slogan 'No one written off:reforming welfare to reward responsibility' well they cant be written off off if they arent even registered with the system.

Could this be a link to a rise in knife crime? A grwoing group of youths not even in the system?

 

[jiggajagga]

Horses for courses........ sit on you ass all day bemoaning your lot or strive to improve through honest endevour.

If you can use a keyboard then someone, somewhere, can use your ability it's up to YOU to help yourself and not rely on others to do it for you.

Sounds quite reasonable doesn't it?
I reality however it doesn't work like that.
Lets say ( for simplicities sake ) that I am claiming IB and getting £100 a week.
You offer me a job @ £30 a day =£150 a week.
Being an honest kinda guy I take the job.
The problem is that some days I can't even stand or sit due to pain.
I can't expect you to pay me for the days I can not work and lets say I work Mon /Tues then have to call of Wed /Thur and work Friday This = 3 days @£30 = £90 income. I am £10 worse off!! The next week I work 4 days. the week after 2, the week after 5.
Even though I am worse off the Gas/Electric/Water/Food/etc etc still has to be paid. Do you care enough to pay me for the days I can't work Dennis?

Question for you Dennis. Would you continue to want to employ me if I keep doing these things through no fault of my own and you have deadlines to meet? I think not. You would get rid and find a fit person who was more stable. Common sense.
Meanwhile I have to go cap in hand and start claiming all over again and anyone that has been through this knows full well the nightmare that awaits them.
So, by doing the 'right thing' I suffer and will you care Dennis? I think not.
It always amazes me how much bile there is about benefit claimants when the government themselves state that only 0.6% is fraudulently claimed after the facts come forward.

And may I guess that you are fit and healthy Dennis? I wish you only wellness. DON'T GET I'LL, DON'T LOSE YOUR JOB or you may starve in UK 2010!!

Remember Dennis. "There but for the grace of God go I."
I too thought like you until a drunk driver ploughed into my car.
Thank God for the Welfare State.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why does everybody seem to concentrate on those claiming IB?

Every day I drive past the job centre (or whatever its called nowadays) at least twice and I see ,what outwardly appear to be, numerous fit young people milling about outside.

Am I correct in believing that those who are on Jobseekers allowance would be the first to be 'targetted' with this workfare malarky?

Nope.
Targeting those on IB plays better to the media, because they can weave in all those stories (I say "all", I mean the handful that journos re-write as necessary) about how people have fraudulently claimed and then been caught running marathons etc.
Of course, the fact that even by the DWP's own (independently verified) criteria, IB attracts the least fraud of all income substitution benefits (less that 1%) never gets aired.

As for why IB is targeted over, say, JSA, it's about logistics where JSA is concerned. The JSA-claimant population is a lot more fluid than the IB-claimant population.

I work with a guy whose physical disabilties (due to certain chemicals his mother injested involuntary) qualify him to claim IB yet he still works full time.

Good for him.

Horses for courses........ sit on you ass all day bemoaning your lot or strive to improve through honest endevour.

The word is "arse", and some of us don't have any choice but to sit on it.

If you can use a keyboard then someone, somewhere, can use your ability it's up to YOU to help yourself and not rely on others to do it for you.

Because life is really that simple, isn't it?
tell you what, you find me an employer who'll pay me a living wage to work from home and only do work that my various health problems and disabilities allow me to do, when they allow me to, and I'll happily sign off of the "benefits" that I've already bloody paid for.
As for your crushingly naive "if you can use a keyboard" comment, have a think about disability, about how that might affect your ability to "use a keyboard", and then go smack yourself in the head with a lump hammer for being an idiot.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I am also worried that it is going to alienate more youths as well. I have youths (grown up children) who work but they have friends that sometimes , in between jobs do not work and they do not bother to sign on coz of the hassle for a measely £40. They find it dehumanizing, belittling and a waste of time. How will they survive? Live off the bank of mum and dad or dabble in drugs, cash jobs or whatever to survive.

I remember back in the late 1970s where signing on (and even registering to sign on) was a real hassle, and had a few mates who started down the road to prison committing petty crime rather than signing on (£16 a week at the time), and others who were still doing casual off the cards labour 15 years later.

As for the green papers slogan 'No one written off:reforming welfare to reward responsibility' well they cant be written off off if they arent even registered with the system.

"No-one written off" is just another meaning-free slogan from New Labour, just as "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" (my emphasis) was a meaning-free slogan. There'll always be people who're written off. Capitalism depends on it.

Could this be a link to a rise in knife crime? A grwoing group of youths not even in the system?

It may be that there's a link, but whether it's separate from or a part of the other reasons...

...who knows yet?

 

[The Black Hand]

Sounds quite reasonable doesn't it?
I reality however it doesn't work like that.
Lets say ( for simplicities sake ) that I am claiming IB and getting £100 a week.
You offer me a job @ £30 a day =£150 a week.
Being an honest kinda guy I take the job.
The problem is that some days I can't even stand or sit due to pain.
I can't expect you to pay me for the days I can not work and lets say I work Mon /Tues then have to call of Wed /Thur and work Friday This = 3 days @£30 = £90 income. I am £10 worse off!! The next week I work 4 days. the week after 2, the week after 5.
Even though I am worse off the Gas/Electric/Water/Food/etc etc still has to be paid. Do you care enough to pay me for the days I can't work Dennis?

Question for you Dennis. Would you continue to want to employ me if I keep doing these things through no fault of my own and you have deadlines to meet? I think not. You would get rid and find a fit person who was more stable. Common sense.
Meanwhile I have to go cap in hand and start claiming all over again and anyone that has been through this knows full well the nightmare that awaits them.
So, by doing the 'right thing' I suffer and will you care Dennis? I think not.
It always amazes me how much bile there is about benefit claimants when the government themselves state that only 0.6% is fraudulently claimed after the facts come forward.

And may I guess that you are fit and healthy Dennis? I wish you only wellness. DON'T GET I'LL, DON'T LOSE YOUR JOB or you may starve in UK 2010!!

Remember Dennis. "There but for the grace of God go I."
I too thought like you until a drunk driver ploughed into my car.
Thank God for the Welfare State.

This is a very heartfelt and intelligent post. I am sorry you are that ill mind and I am also sorry that you have to argue against those who would lash the backs of the disabled. Keep up the good work. We're all going to need to keep resistance coming for many years ahead.

 

[treelover]

Ministers agreed a package of ideas yesterday for the next manifesto in a summit with union leaders and constituency activists in Coventry, including extending the right to unpaid parental leave to parents with children over five - which unions argue could be used to give parents time off during their children's GCSEs and A-levels. Welfare reforms, including the involvement of private firms in handling jobseekers and a requirement for single parents of children over seven to seek work, were also passed.

FFS, like PT said the Unions have passed the welfare reforms, so they will go in the manifesto, with friends like that who needs enemies.

 

[trevhagl]

FFS, like PT said the Unions have passed the welfare reforms, so they will go in the manifesto, with friends like that who needs enemies.

Did anyone ask from what position were they coming
from when they supported this? The mind boggles. Surely union bosses can't be stupid enough to believe a yuppie twat like Purnell, or is it something more sinister...a job in New Labour perhaps?

 

[jiggajagga]

Did anyone ask from what position were they coming
from when they supported this? The mind boggles. Surely union bosses can't be stupid enough to believe a yuppie twat like Purnell, or is it something more sinister...a job in New Labour perhaps?

Told ya mate Dooommed we are! Totalitarian Britain here we come!!

Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a concept used to describe political systems where a state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private life. The term is usually applied to Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany or communist states, such as Stalinist Russia, Democratic Kampuchea, Vietnam, China, Cuba and North Korea. Totalitarian regimes or movements maintain themselves in political power by means of an official all-embracing ideology and propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that controls the state, personality cults, central state-controlled economy, regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism, the use of mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror


Ring any bells yet?

 

[trevhagl]

Told ya mate Dooommed we are! Totalitarian Britain here we come!!

Aye the bastards have their stooges in every orifice of public life, the union rep at my old place who destroyed the union by refusing to do anything was rewarded when his missus got a nice cushy job high up in the council. We are FUUUCCCKKKED

 

[Cressi]

We just have to read James (as he likes to be called) green paper and go throo it with a fine tooth comb. Plus all the big orgs will be doing the same. Dont think MIND will be too pleased with it all.

As for volunteering ....I do + so do my friends but we only do what we are capable to do.

On 1 project I received emails fro Dept of H

 

[tbaldwin]

Lenin's Tomb had a good old go at Hari - http://leninology.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-dont-they-simply-bring-back.html

Also, if I hear one more patronising cunt on the radio telling us how jobs cure depression and so this is all really _healthy_ for people I shall kill someone. Having no money can make you depressed; feeling pointless and worthless can make you depressed. A job sometimes helps on these points (though with the latter one it can make it worse) but I tell you what, being stuck on community service isn't going to help either.

Being stuck on community service might help quite a few people id have thought. Anything that breaks down the isolation and boredom might not be such a bad thing.

 

[tbaldwin]

IMO it is not representative of the country - just people who should be working themselves but it is representative of a neo con agenda with the media going along with it BBC and all and stoking the flames and scapegoating

600,000 job vacancies 2 million and rising unemployed not one jouranlist has made this point and the question is why not?

I think its a good point.
The thing is though it only tells part of the story. There are probably around 7 or 8 million unemployed or underemployed people in the UK.
Work should be shared out and then lots of people in work could work less hours.

 

[trevhagl]

I think its a good point.
The thing is though it only tells part of the story. There are probably around 7 or 8 million unemployed or underemployed people in the UK.
Work should be shared out and then lots of people in work could work less hours.

What? And the bosses would keep your wage the same?

 

[_angel_]

Work should be shared out and then lots of people in work could work less hours.

This will never, ever happen as you well know because the protestant work ethic is, literally a religion with Brown.

S'more like a disease if you ask me.