Purnell: more attacks on the unemployed, etc

[elbows]

Well I read more than half the document before I had to stop. There are a few idea in there which I would support if they were done the right way, but they are proposing horrible things.

For their plans to work, they have to put a heck of a lot of things in place. Their stragety for dealing with drug users, by asking them if they are on hard drugs and doing them for fraud if it turns out they lied, wont go anywhere unless they massively ramp up the number of rehab places for a start.

Other details that seem 'interesting' are that private companies or voluntary organisations that will run work programs, will be given incentive to get difficult cases back to work, by being paid some of the money that would otherwise have gone to the person as benefits. So the bill for the state may not be any lower, and its just redirecting funds from the desperate to the desperate for profit.

Their agenda will also fail massively if there starts to be an increase in unemployment due to economic woes. Still as they are proposing to create a lot of artificial work for the unemployed to do, I suppose they could succeed if they manage to do that on an immense scale. Maybe thats the future for many of us if the private economy tanks, a large expansion of state-funded ultra-low-paid labour that would make immigrants look expensive by comparison.

Their plans for healing the sick and returning them to work, require a NHS that fails people rather less than at present, not sure how they'll pull that one off.

The 'nobody left behind' language sounds like Bush's 'no child left behind' - ominous.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hopefully it isn't the usual "threaten all sorts of shit then do what you originally meant to do in the end, and the press and lobbying groups think it's a climbdown and don't challenge it" situation (does this have an actual name as a tactic? it should do if not)

In strict tactical terms it's known as a feint. Draw fire and keep people from noticing what your real objective is.
Of course, it's much easier if you can sell the feint to the media as "truth", because then they'll retail it for you so widely that you can "swamp" any attempted objectivity.

 

[ViolentPanda]

you mug, congratulated for what exactly? congratulated for presiding over a system of welfare that enforces an ideal of charity rather than mutual support, that has notions of deserving hard-working people running through it despite the impending credit crunch clearly undermining that strategy. 2/10

2/10? Why are you complimenting him?

That post was scarcely worth the steam off my piss, let alone 2/10!

 

[ViolentPanda]

People who want to care for their children themselves will find it hard to leave their kids .no mention as been made of where this child care is coming from ,so does it mean you will be forced to use child minders without acreditation

It certainly looks that way, given that accredited child-minders are at a bit of premium.
I wonder why that is? it's not like we don't have a national childcare strategy...

....oh wait, I forgot. The one we've got is utterly fucking wank!

 

[elbows]

It certainly looks that way, given that accredited child-minders are at a bit of premium.
I wonder why that is? it's not like we don't have a national childcare strategy...

....oh wait, I forgot. The one we've got is utterly fucking wank!

From what I read they are trying to get mothers whose child is aged 7 or over to go to work, so I suppose they think not much childcare will be necessary. Of course this assumes much, such as the job's hours coinciding with school hours, and no consideration of holiday periods. And they want to start the process when the child reaches 5, to make sure the parent gets the message and has the right 'skills'.

Overall they want almost everyone to be labelled a jobseeker, and be constantly pushed in that direction, even if their current circumstances mean they cant seek work right this minute.

 

[elbows]

Oh and I assume there is also the unmentioned agenda, that many people wont find work, but will be bullied out of bothering to claim benefits, which will make their stats look better.

 

[ViolentPanda]

From what I read they are trying to get mothers whose child is aged 7 or over to go to work, so I suppose they think not much childcare will be necessary. Of course this assumes much, such as the job's hours coinciding with school hours, and no consideration of holiday periods. And they want to start the process when the child reaches 5, to make sure the parent gets the message and has the right 'skills'.

Overall they want almost everyone to be labelled a jobseeker, and be constantly pushed in that direction, even if their current circumstances mean they cant seek work right this minute.

I reckon that in terms of "work", NL are pursuing the same line the tories did, quantifying as "work" part-time non-secure (and often non-contracted) employment as well as the more traditional full-time jobs.
Obviously, to salve their already miniscule consciences over this, they convince themselves that employees (coerced or not) want "flexibility", and that part-time work fills this role admirably.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh and I assume there is also the unmentioned agenda, that many people wont find work, but will be bullied out of bothering to claim benefits, which will make their stats look better.

You assume correctly, although I wouldn't say it's unmentioned, more "unacknowledged" by power.

 

[elbows]

Yeah thats what I should have said.

Ah flexibility and choice, two sick euphemisms of the day. I see that benefits claimants are referred to as customers in the green paper. Oh what an age we live in!

The demographic situation also plays into this agenda, what with baby boomers retiring. So we give the old folks the flexibility to remain in work, under the banner of choice, never mind if they really have much of a choice if they cant afford to retire. And I guess a lot of the older workers who were put on the incapacity benefit shelf during the industrial decline of the 80's, are out of the way now, pensioned off or dead.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Years ago I asked to do a web design course, something very useful - they said they wouldn't let me.

I then asked to do an advanced driving course to help get specialist employment as a driver - they wouldn't let me.

What does that tell us about their agendas?

Quite. When I asked about computer qualifications training I got no help and now they are changing the qualification so that had I actually studied for it, I would now have an entirely useless qualification. Total waste of time.

 

[Awesome Wells]

God almighty how much further away from work 'programs' are work 'camps'.

This is beyond Orwellian. It's almost like something out of David Icke's fantasies!

 

[elbows]

God almighty how much further away from work 'programs' are work 'camps'.

This is beyond Orwellian. It's almost like something out of David Icke's fantasies!

Indeed some aspects of it do smell of the poor house. Industrial prisons are another one to watch for, although we have a very long way to go to catch up with the USA's industrial prison complex.

 

[elbows]

Well as the start of the paper kept mentioning Beveridge, I went back and read the Beveridge report. Interesting stuff. If we lived in a fairer society, which took better care of those who had problems, and where employment & learning opportunities were much nicer, I dont think I would mind most of the proposals. And some of them do seem to be in tune with what Beveridge said. But as we dont live in that society right now, and the plan can only be considered in a time of high employment, I think there's more than a small chance of this agenda coming unstuck.

 

[shagnasty]

Perhaps the only way to get long term unemployed, who've developed mental illneses or psycho sematic conditions is boot camp style training, to break this parasitical mindset.

That is a really offensive post you sir should be banned

 

[Awesome Wells]

Fuckwits like him just make getting back into the regular world that bit harder for those of us with problems. I agree, ban him. I personally have no tolerance for such ignorant bullshit.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

2/10? Why are you complimenting him?

That post was scarcely worth the steam off my piss, let alone 2/10!

It was neatly laid out and spelled proper. 1 mark for each.

Having read the GP via skynews, i have to say that it is prolly similar i.e. 80% bullshit with ~20% maybe vaguely worth supporting. but quite disappointing stuff, even the fecking tories say they support it.

 

[_angel_]

Their plans for healing the sick and returning them to work, require a NHS that fails people rather less than at present, not sure how they'll pull that one off.

.

They're going to really have to improve mental health services so people don't find themselves waiting months for a referral to get some help.
The chorus line of people saying "people with depression should work" don't get it at all. Maybe if some help was available as soon as it was needed, not too little far too much later, people would recover quicker.

 

[Goatherd]

I have friends on IB who would definitely be better off working. They can't work though because they're ill, and that's why they're on IB.

Maybe the government should start thinking about how these excess units can be utilized in a way that'll be cost-effective and will sound good in a press release. Quite a few of them are suicidal, and we've all agreed that it's a good thing to expand and facilitate choice in the consumer-led state. I have been assured by a very well-knowing American of my my acquaintance in London, that an IB claimant is a most efficient, cheap and plentiful biofuel, whether burned, composted, or piped for methane.

In all seriousness, I also someone on IB with mental illness who genuinely hopes that these new initiatives will help her back into work. I hope she's right, but I've a horrible feeling otherwise.

 

[Awesome Wells]

But they won't because the system isn't geared toward helping people into work, at all. There is certainly no room to help people find meaningful work utilising their skills and abilities properly. It's just about managing statistics and filling call centres. All at the threat of being left to starve. There is no consideration for treating people as people, that would require a long term strategy and people want results now now now. Therefore if someone's out of work for a while, it won't matter they are training or learning it only matters they are currently not contributing money to the treasury. That there is the only consideration.

 

[jiggajagga]

An open letter to my MP

Mr Farrelly,

I have corresponded with you over the last couple of years about welfare reform as someone who is grateful in the extreme for the help I have received and continue to receive and once again we appear to be being singled out for attention!.

I saw Mr Purnell on the 'Sunday Programme' on 20th July 2008 informing us that his policy was the same as the Tory policy ( Doesn't that make him a Tory then and, if you agree, you too? ) and his latest Green Paper would take these Tory policies further.
Sir, as someone who is 57 lives alone in fear of pain and has not slept in a bed since 2000 due to this chronic pain and who has to be careful in everything he does because if my back or legs give way has no-one to look after him, who sometimes has difficulty in keeping clean after using the toilet , I say this to you;
I am a frightened man!
Your government, my government, is instilling fear in me!!
Are not my disabilities, my heart disease, my diabetes enough to cope with?
How can I work if I can't even wipe my own backside properly for Gods sake!!
How can I work if I don't know until I wake up how much I can accomplish in a single day let alone a week?
Would anyone employ me under these conditions? Would you employ me sir?
I ask you sir. Is this fair? Is this right?
I ask you sir to take these questions into the House of Commons when the Green Paper is next debated and ask Mr Purnell for answers please.
I fully appreciate that the government has a duty to seek out those who misuse the benefits system for the good of us all but I get the feeling that the real cause of this benefit reform is not to help those who could work but to cut the welfare bill regardless of the social cost.

For example, Mr Purnell said on 5 live on 21st July that anyone who turns down a job could have benefits stopped. The interviewer asked if anyone should have to take a job no matter what. Mr Purnell replied that being on benefits is not about choosing a job! He seemed to be saying that a claimant has no choice about job suitability. So if I am an animal lover ( which I am ) and am offered a job in a slaughterhouse I must accept or lose my benefit? If your teenage daughter was offered a job as a pole dancer she could not refuse or lose benefit?

I hope you will stand with those like some of your colleagues in the party who appear to say that this smacks of “all benefit claimants are shirkers “
Mr Purnell says that with rights comes responsibility. Can I ask if I have the right to live fear free of the feeling of being accused as a shirker, as that is how all benefit claimants will feel shortly I fear!
Why does your government always attack those who can not defend themselves? Why do I not hear of such attacks on tax avoiders or VAT abusers. I see ads on the TV against benefit fraudsters but not these tax and VAT avoiders. Why is this so? Could it be that they have power and can fight back?
Please Mr Farrelly do not allow these reforms to pass through without due care and attention as it may lead to early deaths due to worry and concern.
I feel ill now just thinking of what might be, what next cock-up by this cock -up prone government may do to me and those less fortunate than myself!!

Everyone should write to their MP and let them know where you stand.

 

[jiggajagga]

That is a really offensive post you sir should be banned

Trouble is shagnasty is that many in power secretly believe in this IMHO.

 

[Awesome Wells]

'secretly'?

 

[tbaldwin]

Some really hysterical posts on this thread as usual. Disability benefits are a bloody mess. There are loads of people stuck on IB or Income support with a disability premium who could work. Loads of them would like to as well. There will as usual be major holes in this legislation but some of the suggestions on here are just plain nonsense. James purnell trying to thin thru a way of getting hundreds of 1000s of people off IB and into work does not make him Hitler or Bush...
People saying that Nigel should be banned for saying what he thinks are just being silly.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Purnell isn't trying to make people's lives better with this legislation at all as there are markedly better ways of doing things. Creating a society of bitterness, greedy and nastiness doesn't foster anything other than jealousy by 'the taxpayers' toward their new enemy. What we have is an approach akin to cracking a nut with a sledgehammer: castigating the majority because of actions caused by a minority is not only hypocritical but downright irresponsible.

Now we have a situation where people question those doctors who issue sicknotes. We now have attitudes, fostered by the government, where people assume that, if johnny gets a sicknote, it's because he's taking the piss and the doctor, because they are all so overworked and incapable, too stupid to notice. Hence if someone's got a sicknote - check 'em again.

Another thing I've noticed is that people are now using the fact that some people have been on IB for years, they must be lazy, fiddling the system etc. etc. Well of course some people have been on IB for years - they are sick! Some people don't get better! Why then should this be a bone of contention?

Defending this political slimeball by saying that trying to get folk back into work is really being disingenuous. That's not what is going to happen with this system at all. It isn't happening now and the proposal is for a harsher system in an economic climate that cannot support it where already people are starting to lose jobs.

 

[treelover]

It seems to me that the 'benefit claimant' is the new 'enemy of the state'

 

[treelover]

This from another blog is pretty good

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=2635#comment-82277

'It’s all going to get pretty crowded out on the streets round here what with all the forced labour. We’ve already been told about the ‘offenders’ doing ‘community payback’ by picking up litter and removing graffiti. Now we’ve got the benefits claimants earning their dole by, er, picking up litter and erasing graffiti. What I want to know is how yer honest hard-working non-offending type knows one from the other. I guess they’ll come up with some sort of colour coding, maybe orange jumpsuits for the villains (O for offender) and pink overalls for the dolies (P for poor). What happens if someone’s an offender and a benefits claimant I don’t know, maybe they have to do the really, really humiliating stuff with their bare hands for a while and then get bumped up to basic litter picking with a grabber stick and everything once they’ve done their time. And where all this leaves your old fashioned council street cleaner who know. Perhaps they get to wear lime green gear (L for low paid).'

 

[october_lost]

'Revolutionary shakeup'
Attacks on 'drug users'

 

[treelover]

Its not just the BBC that gets it wrong, that bit in the Guardian is wrong, the new benefit ESA is coming in in October 2008, and a fair bit of the Green Paper are rehashed announcements.

 

[treelover]

Cameron said he was 'thrilled" by the proposals, which he claimed draw heavily on Conservative proposals unveiled in January.

Says it all really, Camerons strategy has been to push NL in a race to the bottom, it is working sadly.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Under plans laid out in the Green Paper, claimants will have to carry out four weeks' community work once they have been unemployed for more than a year.

After two years, they will be ordered to work full-time in the community.

What a joke. Four weeks is hardly worth the bloody hassle anyway!

Then full time? Full time is 40 hours. Divide £60 JSA by 40 and what you get is fucking slavery!