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    Lazy Llama

Purnell: more attacks on the unemployed, etc

1 Fallen by what since when? What about people on disability premium income support etc etc??

2 So you have a full breakdown of the figures do you?????

November 2003, IB claimants including all those on IS with a disability premium = 2,780,500

June 2008, IB claimants including all those on IS with a disability premium = 2,641,700.

I make that a reduction of 138,800 in less than 5 years. Slow progress sure but it gives lie to government claims that the figure is increasing.

DWP press release (this is the full breakdown btw)
 
1 Fallen by what since when? What about people on disability premium income support etc etc??
I see Paulie has already posted the headline figures, so I won't bother repeating that.
2 So you have a full breakdown of the figures do you?????
Nope, but it's pretty easy to go to the DWP's site, look up the current number of people in receipt of state pension (11.4 million in 2006-7) and work out what percentage they constitute of all claimants of claimants on income-substitute benefits, i.e of the "30%" (actually about 28%, but let's call it 30% for convenience's sake), they'd comprise 18% of that 30%, or in real terms, 55% of the entire claimant population on benefits that are income substitutes.
Go to the DWP site and check it out, it'll take you all of 5 minutes to dig out the appropriate spreadsheets in the "research and statistics" section, balders.
 
I am still puzzled by Balders's apparently inconsistent views on the claimants of the one benefit he personally is likely to receive.
 
I am still puzzled by Balders's apparently inconsistent views on the claimants of the one benefit he personally is likely to receive.

Not quite sure wot you mean by that.
Where exactly do you think im being inconsistent? If i live to pensionable age i will be very happy.....
 
I see Paulie has already posted the headline figures, so I won't bother repeating that.

Nope, but it's pretty easy to go to the DWP's site, look up the current number of people in receipt of state pension (11.4 million in 2006-7) and work out what percentage they constitute of all claimants of claimants on income-substitute benefits, i.e of the "30%" (actually about 28%, but let's call it 30% for convenience's sake), they'd comprise 18% of that 30%, or in real terms, 55% of the entire claimant population on benefits that are income substitutes.
Go to the DWP site and check it out, it'll take you all of 5 minutes to dig out the appropriate spreadsheets in the "research and statistics" section, balders.

Thanks for that VP..

Did you know that 1.9m in 1992 on IB or SDA by 1997 it was up to 2.74 million.
Big rise in people there, do you think it was down to John Major kicking peoples sticks away etc or were there other reasons for the massive increase of people on disability benefits?
 
Thanks for that VP..

Did you know that 1.9m in 1992 on IB or SDA by 1997 it was up to 2.74 million.
Big rise in people there, do you think it was down to John Major kicking peoples sticks away etc or were there other reasons for the massive increase of people on disability benefits?

Its well documented that the TOries encouraged people onto IB from UB as a way to get unemployment figures down in the early 1990s. Plus 1000's more miners got onto IB as well in the early mid 1990s, esp in Easington....
 
Thanks for that VP..

Did you know that 1.9m in 1992 on IB or SDA by 1997 it was up to 2.74 million.
Big rise in people there, do you think it was down to John Major kicking peoples sticks away etc or were there other reasons for the massive increase of people on disability benefits?
I think that if you take into account the closure of several major industries and the fact that many industrial illnesses/injuries don't properly manifest until you're no longer working in the conditions that cause it (vibration white finger for example), then it was partly to do with the collapse of industry and partly to do with number-juggling.
Oh, by the way, Incapacity Benefit didn't exist in 1992, there was something different called Invalidity Allowance, with an entirely different set of qualifying criteria. :)
 
I think that if you take into account the closure of several major industries and the fact that many industrial illnesses/injuries don't properly manifest until you're no longer working in the conditions that cause it (vibration white finger for example), then it was partly to do with the collapse of industry and partly to do with number-juggling.
Oh, by the way, Incapacity Benefit didn't exist in 1992, there was something different called Invalidity Allowance, with an entirely different set of qualifying criteria. :)

Much more to do with massaging the figures id have thought. A rise of 900,000 in those days i think cant really be explained in any other way.
The collapse of industry i thought was more of an 80s fingy....
 
Much more to do with massaging the figures id have thought.
Balders, what you think happened is irrelevant, what you know and can prove, that's what is relevant.
A rise of 900,000 in those days i think cant really be explained in any other way.
Really?
There was me thinking that I'd just done exactly that.
The collapse of industry i thought was more of an 80s fingy....
No, the collapse of the manufacturing industry is ongoing, in fact steel and heavy engineering mostly went belly-up in the 1990s
 
Balders, what you think happened is irrelevant, what you know and can prove, that's what is relevant.

Really?
There was me thinking that I'd just done exactly that.

No, the collapse of the manufacturing industry is ongoing, in fact steel and heavy engineering mostly went belly-up in the 1990s

1 So so true...er sort of...
2 But what you think is irrelevant surely. What you know and can PROVE is relevant.....
3 And there was me thinking unemployment was higher in the 80s than the 90s just goes to show i suppose....you cant always trust the bloke down the pub eh....
 
They don't contribute at present. IB claimants have contributed something at some time, otherwise they wouldn't be able to claim.

er? Sorry really dont understand what point your trying to make...You do know that a lot of people on disabled benfits will never have worked dont you?? perhaps not?
 
er? Sorry really dont understand what point your trying to make...You do know that a lot of people on disabled benfits will never have worked dont you?? perhaps not?

The same is true of some pensioners. I'm just trying to get at the root of why you think one group is worthy and the other isn't.
 
er? Sorry really dont understand what point your trying to make...You do know that a lot of people on disabled benfits will never have worked dont you?? perhaps not?
The point is, you numpty, that you can only get IB if you have paid sufficient NI contributions, therefore clearly demonstrating that at least 1.6million IB claimants have worked and contributed previously. This is the fundamental basis of the welfare state that Beveridge created, one of social insurance whereby you pay in when you can and the system pays out when you can't.

And undermining that essential basis of the system, by implying that people are somehow receiving something on an undeserved basis is mean-spirited if i'm being generous, or fucking outrageous if i'm not.
 
Well it kind of started from

tbaldwin said:
I think there has to be a recognition that long term unemployment is a really bad thing.As ive said countless times before the vast majority of people on IB etc could work and would work with the right support and encouragement.

and then carried on for pages and pages.
 
Just been knocked back for both housing and council tax benefit.

Apparently, £13 grand a year is adequate to live on without any extra help with benefits for increasing housing costs.

So, denied working tax credits this year and now this. :mad:
 
Its well documented that the TOries encouraged people onto IB from UB as a way to get unemployment figures down in the early 1990s. Plus 1000's more miners got onto IB as well in the early mid 1990s, esp in Easington....

and then the figures became meaningless anyway because both the real Tories and the ones we have in power now fiddled them like fuck
 
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