Purnell: more attacks on the unemployed, etc
- Thread starter treelover
- Start date
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
I really don't see how Nigel's words, however nasty and prejudiced, amount to conduct that amounts to any crime I've heard of in any part of the UK - even breach of the peace in Scotland. If his saying what he said did amount to a crime then it might well be classed as aggravated by hate. And it is certainly not against the law, as you suggested, to allow people to express views in the way that he did.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Can't we tar and feather Nigel anyway?
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Only if it doesn't cause him fear and alarm.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Too late pumpkin pussy. You had your chance to redeem yourself; you are now reviled in the eyes of all. Off back 'neath whatever petrified matter whence you crawled.
Come Long John and Quasi, tell me all; did Nigel’s m...
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Does'nt seem particularly fair, you're aloud to slag off, abuse & whatever.
You set up situations to act in you're favour, but if anyone has a go at you you play the victim!
Mind you. Looking at the state of you, their is much I could say about you, that is'nt in you're own profile!!!!
<editor: information removed>
You set up situations to act in you're favour, but if anyone has a go at you you play the victim!
Mind you. Looking at the state of you, their is much I could say about you, that is'nt in you're own profile!!!!
<editor: information removed>
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Life isn't fair, dipstick.
Unlike you eh, crybaby? You never play the victim, do you?You set up situations to act in you're favour, but if anyone has a go at you you play the victim!
Perhaps you should bear in mind that if either Urbanblues or myself had chosen to forward your death threat PMs to the mods, you'd have been kicked off this site faster than a dog kicked by a tory, before moaning about him "playing the victim".
Ooh look, Nigel's so mature he has to resort to insulting a person's appearance!
I'd ask you to grow up, but I'm fairly certain you've already reached the limit of your mental development, given the dreck you often post.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
what death threats?Life isn't fair, dipstick.
Unlike you eh, crybaby? You never play the victim, do you?
Perhaps you should bear in mind that if either Urbanblues or myself had chosen to forward your death threat PMs to the mods, you'd have been kicked off this site faster than a dog kicked by a tory, before moaning about him "playing the victim".
Ooh look, Nigel's so mature he has to resort to insulting a person's appearance!
I'd ask you to grow up, but I'm fairly certain you've already reached the limit of your mental development, given the dreck you often post.
Have I threatened to kill anyone, just reacted to you & your fuckwits abuse.
See you & you're fuckwit mates on litter duty.
Tosser
editor
hiraethified
Do not post up personal information about posters please.
Attachments
baldrick
hmmmmm
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The death threat you PMed me.
You know, the one where you threatened to find me and "do me in" because I'd made a comment about your mother's sexual habits?
The one where I told you to "bring it on"?
That one, you cowardly little wanker.
E2A:
The death threat you PMed me because of our contretemps on the "Arbeit Macht Frei" thread in January. You know, the thread you deleted many of your posts from for some mysterious (
) reason.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
and this is the man who complained about being forced to work for £200 a week.
He's a mass of contradictions, is Nigel.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
I was only out of work for a little while?and this is the man who complained about being forced to work for £200 a week.
The tax credit system should be updated, to take into consideration, for instance single people. This may be a good move to get people in a working environment. That of a minimum wage of a least 10.00 per hour for adults, proper apprentice schemes for school leavers & youth & a return to a fair rent system.
To be honest, what I have seen, i think that these private agencies have done effective work in getting semi literate people to pick up basic ICT skills, numeracy, grammer etc., even put some through re-taking GCSE's in maths & english. I know that the private sector is basically asset stripping funds & exploitative, however they have a sense of professionalism that is little found in public sector. Perhaps when such agencies are succesfully re-nationalised & taken under democratic public control, some of this profesionalism.
As far a scamming incapacity benefit goes, I told one individual how to do this, who goes running regularly, goes to the gym and spends most of his time setting up his own record lady & band. He got this within weeks, mainly by hassling his G.P. Shows how easy it is.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
You and your mates are just fucking hypocrites!!!!!!!!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Hardly the point. You're still a hypocrite.
The tax credit system is specifically designed to exclude single people. I'm sure you can work out why if you put your mind to it, because the reason is fairly obvious.
As for the minimum hourly rate, that too is designed with a specific purpose that's fairly easy to discern, and is related to the reason that it only increases by fairly meaningless increments as the years go by.
You won't see a "fair rent" system re-imposed by any mainstream political party. Too many "Middle-Englanders" have the savings for their old age tied up in property now for a govt to risk upsetting them.
You're missing the point. No government will move away from neo-liberal market capitalism of it's own volition, only if it's forced to by outside events. "Re-nationalisation" is a pipe-dream in current political circumstances.
Really?
"Within weeks", you say?
How odd.
Especially when there's no way the system can award it "within weeks" unless you've got a terminal illness and less than a year to live.
Funny, that.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Takes one to know one, eh Nigel?
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
I can see a situation where the government would attempt to subsidise low paid workers or a reduced rate for for people on low income to keep wages down. Thatcher under the guidence of her mentor Hayak used unemplyment & such techniques in the 1980's & New Labours introduction of the tax credit system under the guise of fighting against social exclusion was'nt 100% ultruistic.
The idea that Capitalism and the ideological hegemony surrounded it is in total control is a bit of an illusion, capitalism is a very chaotic system, and nationalision along with other forms of Keynsian economics has, and would be seen as just another technique of sustaining the economy and with it social stability. You just have to look at the recent situation with Northern Rock & the international banking system recentely to see that.
As far as claiming incapacity benefit is concerned, yes this is true as far as I know. The individual involved convinced their doctor to sign them off and they are in the process of pushing through their claim for IB. They may be lieing, but I cannot see why they would.
I am not going to carry on with this thread as at best it just turns into a slagging match, in which the dice are loaded against me.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
If you've soiled yourself by actually reading von Hayek, Friedman and the "Chicago School" economists that Alan Walters, Keith Joseph and Thatcher's other eminences gris drew their economic theories from, you'll know that the idea wasn't to "subsidise" low-paid workers, so much as to subsidise their employers so that the employees might benefit through what came to be called "trickle down", and as far as unemployment was concerned, it was considered an economic necessity in terms of reducing wage inflation.
It's true that the tax credit system isn't and wasn't intended to be altruistic: It's another "hidden" subsidy to employers, albeit rather more direct (when taken into account with the National Minimum Hourly Rate than the Conservative method of tax concessions, VAT exemptions on new equipment etc.
I don't believe that anyone has claimed that the ideologies of Capitalism have "total control", in fact the concept of hegemony makes it VERY clear that control is necessarily contingent and constantly endangered.
What we do have is a system that is believed, by most economic actors (of whatever scale) to be "the only game in town", so we'll see (over and over and over again) bail-outs and "rescues" with public money of failed capitalist ventures.
Where oh where is the much-vaunted (and obviously much misunderstood by anyone who's never read Adam Smith) "invisible hand" that so many politicians and economists believed would magically stabilise and balance markets? Up someone's arse, probably.
Right, so what he's actually on is the short-term slightly-better-than-dole benefit because he hasn't actually qualified for IB yet, and will still have to go through a medical examination by one of the DWP's hired bum-fingerers before it's determined whether they get the benefit.
Have you asked yourself why you feel the "dice are loaded against" you?
Nothing to do with the posting of prejudiced nonsense?
Or name-calling?
Nothing to do with you rarely bothering to actually lay out your argument (something you did actually bother with above)?
The minimum income guarantee and working tax credits could already be claimed to be helping keep wages down...I still think they are on balance a good thing....short of revolutionary change and all that....
The amount of people on IB has rocketed since the Tories tried to massage the headline unemployment figures.
A statistic for all those people who like that sort of thing is that now ver 30% of the uks populations main source of income is welfare benefits...What a shit state this country is in.
_angel_
.
How do you define 'main' source of income..
ie you're including people who work and claim wftc/ ctc and maybe housing/ council tax benefits.
I do agree it is ridiculous to be in fulltime work and not paid enough to live on and agree with some form of citizen's wage. However blaming the people claiming because of the shit situation they find themselves isn't helpful.
ie you're including people who work and claim wftc/ ctc and maybe housing/ council tax benefits.I do agree it is ridiculous to be in fulltime work and not paid enough to live on and agree with some form of citizen's wage. However blaming the people claiming because of the shit situation they find themselves isn't helpful.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
That was 15-20 years ago, and as you've been told in fuck knows how many threads in the last couple of years, the number of IB claimants has fallen, as have the numbers of recipients.
That includes the 18%+/- who are in receipt of an old age pension, though.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
"Main source of income" should mean people on the following:How do you define 'main' source of income..
I do agree it is ridiculous to be in fulltime work and not paid enough to live on and agree with some form of citizen's wage. However blaming the people claiming because of the shit situation they find themselves isn't helpful.
Incapacity Benefit,
Income Support,
JSA (both types),
State Retirement Pension,
because WFTC, CTC, HB, Minimum Income Guarantee etc are "top-up" benefits rather than income substitutes.
_angel_
.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Does baldwin have some kind of beef with pensioners getting a pension then.
G-d alone knows, but he seems to have a problem with just about everyone else, so I suppose it's possible.
1 Fallen by what since when? What about people on disability premium income support etc etc??
2 So you have a full breakdown of the figures do you?????
Does baldwin have some kind of beef with pensioners getting a pension then.
? Angel i have no idea how you jumped to that conclusion.
I am very much in favour of increasing the basic state pension.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Baldwin, you’ve posed the above question to VP, asking him to corroborate his figures.
Please corroborate your 30% claim – as made below.
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